[vid]

Quote:

I'm not even convinced about the accuracy of the title of this thread.  Is the general high price of headphones justified?  Is there consensus that headphones are generally high priced?  In comparison to what?  People pay $100 for jeans, $30 for a steak, $50 for a brand name Tshirt, $2000-$4000 for a flat screen, $400 - $800 for a smart phone. So is $300 for a good headphone relatively expensive?

 
Would a person, a non-collector, pay $400 for a good 20-year-old mobile phone, or $2000 for a good 20-year-old telly? Should a person pay $400 for a good 20-year-old headphone, like the Senn HD 600?

 

[JohnnnW]

Okay so here's my last question.
 
Pick a headphone worth $1,500, whatever one.
 
How much do you think said headphone costs to make? 

 

[Baxide]

If you were making just one piece it would likely cost you about U$15K upwards. The cost of each mold would be in excess of U$3000. A typical headphone would have parts made out of at least 5 different custom molds.

 

[vid]

Let's look at companies that reuse the molds decade after decade - AKG, Beyer, and Sennheiser, for instance.
 
The DT 990 Pro cup looks a carbon copy of the 1980s DT 990, and the driver tech is probably not radically different. Is there a technical reason the 990 Pro aren't selling for $50 these days?

 

[commando]

I suspect R&D costs are a significant factor, given the relatively low volume headphones probably sell at. Cost of materials once you've done the research and worked out how to manufacture in volume probably isn't so high, but the initial costs have to be paid for.

 

[Baxide]

Quote:

Let's look at companies that reuse the molds decade after decade - AKG, Beyer, and Sennheiser, for instance.
 
The DT 990 Pro cup looks a carbon copy of the 1980s DT 990, and the driver tech is probably not radically different. Is there a technical reason the 990 Pro aren't selling for $50 these days?

Molds have a finite life I am afraid to report. They deteriorate with each production use. So the same mold would only last on a small production run.
But keep in mind that the factory gate price is only part of the cost. The cans might leave a factory gate at a price of U$20 for a consignment order of 1000 pieces. The buyer has to pay transport, import costs, shipment insurance. Then he has  the costs as a seller, which are warehouse storage, sales distribution, consignment splitting ( no one dealer will take the whole 1000 pcs). etc. Then the retailer has his own purchasing costs, storage, etc. So that initial U$5 of an item in a reasonably large box has multiplied in cost. The average multiplication for a packed item of that size is 4 to 10 times depending on transport distance from the factory and import taxes. 
 
It would be nice to think that you could go and buy a DT990 that uses far more expensive parts and comes in a bigger box (for transport damage prevention) at U$50. But you would probably have to pay the workers U$1 a day and use recycled and low quality material to get that sort of price in the shop. 

 

[vid]

^ Thanks for the insights. Any idea how e.g. Superlux get their stuff to the consumer for less than $50 per unit?

 

[Baxide]

If they are making them by the container full each day and use cheap material then a factory gate price of U$5 is quite possible. A ten fold mark up due to cost between factory and consumer would make it possible to reach a U$50 price tag.

 

[JohnnnW]

I just find it crazy some headphones cost so much to make that it justifies a $1,500 price tag

 

[casperry]

My guess is that the cost of raw materials has small to medium impact on the total cost of making an audiophile quality headphone. You pay for research and development,other fixed costs and then that cost is divided by relatively small number of people that buy this niche product. And it gets harder and costlier to make even minor improvements when you are trying to improve on already a state of the art technology, hence you don't see three fold improvement when you go from 500$ headphone to a 1500$ one and more expensive headphone will have even fewer buyers that must foot the bill.

 

[Kernmac]

Quote:

 
Would a person, a non-collector, pay $400 for a good 20-year-old mobile phone, or $2000 for a good 20-year-old telly? Should a person pay $400 for a good 20-year-old headphone, like the Senn HD 600?

That is a [size=medium]nonsensical statement in relation to markup and profit margins.  Why would a non collector in any market niche pay a premium price for any vintage article?  Antiques and the like having an inflated price due to rarity or other such factors, has nothing to with a manufacturers or retailers profit.  A stamp or coin being worth many thousands of dollars, is hardly due to any markup.  In fact the price of vintage being inflated is more a true reflection of what the market will pay.[/size]
 
[size=medium]And in regards to the HD600 or HD650 people aren't paying $400 for a 20 year old headphone, that is for a brand new headphone.  Who pays $400 for a 20 year old HD600?  2 year old HD600 would be lucky to get $250. And for the record who pays around $400 for  a Senn HD600 or HD650, plenty of people, just ask Sennheiser and headphone retailers.  But probably no where near the volume as $400 beats headphones.[/size]
 
[size=medium]And as I have stated before, I do not even consider $400 as expensive relative to many other things-eg: Mobile phones, or even mobile phone plans, or mag wheels or after market car exhausts etc.[/size]
 
[size=medium]Value is relative.[/size]

 

[vid]

The HD 600 is old technology and that old technology is what you pay $400 for. As you say, it really makes no sense - though even $250 is exaggerated.

 

[Sound Quest]

Quote:

The HD 600 is old technology and that old technology is what you pay $400 for. As you say, it really makes no sense - though even $250 is exaggerated.

 
Very few headphones came anywhere close to sounding as good as the HD600's 20 years ago. The one's that did cost thousands.

 

[vid]

^ The Beyer DT 990 matched the HD 600 ten years before the HD 600 came out. The DT 990 may have cost less, too, but I'm not sure.
 
Also, the relatively cheap AKG K 241 from the late '70s had a decay about as fast as the HD 600. But the K 241 also had a notable treble emphasis, so that's a matter of taste.

 

[Sound Quest]

AKG are known for their treble emphasized headphones with non-existant bass response,,,,

It my own opinion, the DT990's arent on quite the same level as the 600s.