[extrabigmehdi]

Quote:

FR measurements with a low load
 
The perception of muffled sound is not the fault of the player if its FR is flat which the clip is. If you think more treble means the sound is clearer then it's obvious the source's FR is not flat and more tipped towards high frequencies

Well if you are talking of measurements, I'd be happy if you show me  some measurements of both sansa clip+ and cowon s9 (so that I could tell from the graph which one is less colored).
I got on the contrary the feeling that the sound of the sansa clip+ was low passed, and that something was missing .
 
 

 

[esanthosh]

S9: http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39435
 
For J3 vs S9 : http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/Comparisons/16%20Ohm%20-%20Cowon%2C%20J3%2C%20S9%2C%20D2%2C%20i9.htm
 
For J3 vs Clip+ with 32 ohm load:  http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/Comparisons/32%20Ohm%20Multi-Armature%20-%20Cowon%20J3%2C%20Sansa%20Clip%2B%2C%20Sony%20A845%2C%20Hifiman%20HM-801.htm
 
J3 vs Clip+: http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/Comparisons/Cowon%20J3%20Loads%20vs%20Clip%2B.htm
 
May be you can overlap all those graphs and come to a conclusion about Clip+ vs S9.

 

[kite7]

Thanks esanthosh for digging those up.
 
Also those tests don't mention the output voltage, so take them for what you will...
 
At least the FR is right, the rest such as dynamic range and noise level may not be.
 
I strive for accuracy in my source, so that near flat FR of the clip on low load is very important to me. I'm curious to know what the exact output impedance is on all those players such as J3 and A845. The HM801 is around 18 ohm iirc so that is why that FR looks so wild on low loads such as IEMs; for high impedance cans over 300 ohm though I'm sure it looks a lot flatter. A845 is probably close to the HM801 in output impedance since the FR shares some similarities.  The J3 may be close to the clip in output impedance but the bass roll off has something to do with some capacitor chosen for the J3's output stage from what I've read, similar to the D2 I've owned.

 

[nicholars]

I find the high and mid range of the clip+ to be pretty good the thing that I dont like is the distorted, generally not very good bass.

 

[RealSlimSeto]

Quote:

I find the high and mid range of the clip+ to be pretty good the thing that I dont like is the distorted, generally not very good bass.

I heard that Rockbox fixes that. I just done it on my Fuze and I believe it has got slightly better, even though it might just be a placebo effect.

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

The feeling I get from the Clip + is that it is quite accurate but it doesnt amplify the sound very much thus making it sound a bit flat.... Whereas if I plug the same IEM's into my desktop amplifier they sound more amplified / dynamic and less flat.

This ^.  You are absolutely right.  For those of us that can hear the difference it will not suffice beyond its convenient form and function.
 

 

[nicholars]

Quote:

This ^.  You are absolutely right.  For those of us that can hear the difference it will not suffice beyond its convenient form and function.
 

Are there any players that are better in this area? Maybe an iphone or a samsung galaxy s?

 

[nicholars]

Quote:

Are there any players that are better in this area? Maybe an iphone or a samsung galaxy s?

Or would you need to buy a portable amp such as an ibasso etc?

 

[extrabigmehdi]

Quote:

S9: http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39435
 
For J3 vs S9 : http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/Comparisons/16%20Ohm%20-%20Cowon%2C%20J3%2C%20S9%2C%20D2%2C%20i9.htm
 
For J3 vs Clip+ with 32 ohm load:  http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/Comparisons/32%20Ohm%20Multi-Armature%20-%20Cowon%20J3%2C%20Sansa%20Clip%2B%2C%20Sony%20A845%2C%20Hifiman%20HM-801.htm
 
J3 vs Clip+: http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/Comparisons/Cowon%20J3%20Loads%20vs%20Clip%2B.htm
 
May be you can overlap all those graphs and come to a conclusion about Clip+ vs S9.

Thanks, it's clear now that unlike the Sansa clip+ , the cowon J3 & S9 have a bass roll off. However, I'm not sure why dfkt said in the forum  it's negligible , and it seems to improves with headphone of higher impedance. The srh940 I've tested on the cowon has an impedance of 42 ohms (I would suppose the frequency graph is even flatter).
It seems also that the noise level of sansa clip increase, with bigger impedance, or I don't know how to explain the differences on the graph below:
 
 

 

 
Anyway, the flatter frequency response of the sansa clip, in the 0-100 hz region, is not enough to convince me of it superior sound quality (vs the cowon s9).
Perhaps the the sansa clip+ would compare better when using  a headphone of low impedance. (i.e around 16 ohms).
Anyway, I'd the prefer the cowon s9, when using my 42 ohms  headphones (srh940).

 

[nicholars]

I am not sure why you are so convinced by just looking at a frequency response graph?
 
Yes it has a flatter and thus more neutral frequency response but that doesnt really tell you conclusively that the actual sound quality you hear will be better as it may be lacking in dynamics, have distorted bass etc. irrelevant of the frequency response graph.

 

[joeq70]

My clip+ is not rockboxed. However, it's pretty easy to tell that my PR0 900s sound better from the iphone 4 than the clip +. If clinging to the abstract idea of "colored" sound makes people feel better about a player , that's fine. What makes one player better than another one to me, though, is what sounds better i.e. gives the most pleasing music listening experience, which will ultimately depend on what headphones you use and what your tastes are.  Overall, I get a more impressive sound out of the iphone 4. As another point of comparison, though, neither player can compete with the S:Flo 2 line out with an amp.

 

[extrabigmehdi]

Quote:

My clip+ is not rockboxed. However, it's pretty easy to tell that my PR0 900s sound better from the iphone 4 than the clip +.

But the Pro 900 needs an amp , isn't it ?
 

 

[joeq70]

 
Quote:

But the Pro 900 needs an amp , isn't it ?
 

Yes, it does. I used the iphone4 and clip+ with the Digizoid ZO to amp the phones. I used a Mini3 with the S:flo 2 when I had it. 

 

[extrabigmehdi]

Quote:

 


Yes, it does. I used the iphone4 and clip+ with the Digizoid ZO to amp the phones. I used a Mini3 with the S:flo 2 when I had it. 

 
I'm surprised you use a Zo for an already bass heavy headphone.
 
 

 

[kite7]

Quote:

I am not sure why you are so convinced by just looking at a frequency response graph?
 
Yes it has a flatter and thus more neutral frequency response but that doesnt really tell you conclusively that the actual sound quality you hear will be better as it may be lacking in dynamics, have distorted bass etc. irrelevant of the frequency response graph.

 
The thing is you may not like a neutral FR. The actual sound quality? Qualities through measurements; distortion can be measured. Dynamics range is SNR; unless your dynamics mean hyped up bass and highs with recession in the midrange. The most dynamic thing is my headphone.