[kalbee]

Quote:

im going to buy the fiio E11 amp, but I still need a dac. Im looking for a dac that can take a mini toslink 3.5mm input.. but I would also like to be able to have a 3.5mm digital input. I know that the E17 has this capability, but like I said, I would like a separate amp and dac.

Separate amp is easy.
Separate DAC... is going to be costly. Haven't seen too many of these that are inexpensive.
 
There is an advantage to having dedicated DAC/AMP in that you can get overall better sound quality (debatable, and depends on how sensitive your ears are to changes... so you may or may not feel/hear it) but generally speaking that's in the case of higher end models which can cost you A LOT.
 
Unless you go the DIY way.

 

[Avataradict23]

I know that toslink is digital, and 3.5mm connections are analog. Its just that mini toslink just so happens to also come in the size of 3.5mm which can confuse people. I want a dac that I can plug my phone into (because my phone uses the basic 3.5mm analog connections), but id also like a dac that I could use with my xbox (which uses toslink connections). Yes I know I could go buy the e17's, but Ive found that not only will buying the e11's + a dac be cheaper, but the e11 amp is better quality than the e17.

So do u guys know of any dacs that can support both mini toslink input and 3.5mm analog input for a reasonable price???

 

[lukEM22]

That isnt what I've heard. I have been told that the E11 amp and E17 are the exact same. Also, the E17 is probably the cheapest one you'll find that has a toslink.
 
The only decent DAC I know of in the price range is the Audioengine  d1. If you buy that then your about $80 over budget then just buying the E17.
If your listening through an ipod, you probably wont need a DAC. Better off just putting that extra money towards an amp.

 

[kalbee]

Quote:

That isnt what I've heard. I have been told that the E11 amp and E17 are the exact same. Also, the E17 is probably the cheapest one you'll find that has a toslink.
 
The only decent DAC I know of in the price range is the Audioengine  d1. If you buy that then your about $80 over budget then just buying the E17.
If your listening through an ipod, you probably wont need a DAC. Better off just putting that extra money towards an amp.

I believe it's the E10 that has the exact same amp.
Both a DAC/AMP but it's USB only or something like that. No batteries inside.
 
E07k is cheaper for the same functions but not as good/clean of an amp from what I hear.
 
====================
 
Unfortunately all the stuff I've seen lately have Optical mini jacks but are optical outs not in :S
(and stupid talk: then there's also the AK100 or AK120 that are quality DAPs and can also serve as a DAC... doesn't have a line out though, so you'd be dual amping it if you were to use it with a, say, E11. That said, those AK-DAPs are so expensive)
I recall some people do prefer the E11 for the way it handles its bass boost circuit... but haven't really heard much about E11 being a better amp overall than the E17. There are surely people on both camps though.
 
Also, since you mention your phone as audio source for on the go, your best bet will actually be to consult threads related to phones similar to yours. As a general note, if you MUST output from your phone through analog 3.5mm, there's no DAC for you. If your phone can output via USB or optical (anything digital) then you may be able to find a DAC. I know there are DAC/amps that can bypass the internal DAC of iDevices but if it's Android or anything else I am not familiar with that.

 

[Avataradict23]

Hmm. I looked into it and I don't see how the e17's dac will work with my phone because they dont have a mini usb to 3.5mm line-in chord... So I may just get a dac that has a digital input for mini toslink. I dont need to worry about it being able to work with my smartphone since it has a built in dac. (Unless you guys think otherwise.)

I think it would be simpler to buy a dac that just supports spdif-in or optical input.

 

[kalbee]

Quote:

Hmm. I looked into it and I don't see how the e17's dac will work with my phone because they dont have a mini usb to 3.5mm line-in chord... So I may just get a dac that has a digital input for mini toslink. I dont need to worry about it being able to work with my smartphone since it has a built in dac. (Unless you guys think otherwise.)

I think it would be simpler to buy a dac that just supports spdif-in or optical input.

The E17 & E07k 's DAC only works with Coaxial, Optical (mini toslink), and Computer USB as far as I know. Even if your smart phone had a USB port to to connect to the E17's USB-DAC, I don't think it works...
 
All/most modern electronic devices with a headphone port has a DAC. The only reason to get a dedicated DAC is to get to use a better DAC. So yes, your smartphone has a DAC. Generally speaking, the DAC on smartphones aren't that good, or so-so. In a pure audiophile stand point that is. These regular DACs (as opposed to "audiophile oriented" DACs) tend to be more colored. Most people on Head-Fi, honestly, use the original DAC on their music player, be it an audio player of some sort or a smartphone. I only connect an amp to my phone, and bypass the phone's internal amp.
 
In the same way, all will have an amp too. Your TV, your smartphone, etc. they all have one. These tend to also be either
-not as clean
-not as powerful
-more colored
Hence people wanting to get a dedicated amp.

 

[Avataradict23]

The E17 & E07k 's DAC only works with Coaxial, Optical (mini toslink), and Computer USB as far as I know. Even if your smart phone had a USB port to to connect to the E17's USB-DAC, I don't think it works...

All/most modern electronic devices with a headphone port has a DAC. The only reason to get a dedicated DAC is to get to use a better DAC. So yes, your smartphone has a DAC. Generally speaking, the DAC on smartphones aren't that good, or so-so. In a pure audiophile stand point that is. These regular DACs (as opposed to "audiophile oriented" DACs) tend to be more colored. Most people on Head-Fi, honestly, use the original DAC on their music player, be it an audio player of some sort or a smartphone. I only connect an amp to my phone, and bypass the phone's internal amp.

In the same way, all will have an amp too. Your TV, your smartphone, etc. they all have one. These tend to also be either
-not as clean

-not as powerful
-more colored
Hence people wanting to get a dedicated amp.

I totally agree. I have been going back and forth about a dac though. Honestly I'm more interested in a great amp which is why I've settled on the e11's. The only additional struggle is now finding a dac. Everyone seems to really like the e17's, but it won't work with my phone.

So now im looking for a dac with optical inputs (and usb inputs if possible).

 

[kalbee]

Quote:

I totally agree. I have been going back and forth about a dac though. Honestly I'm more interested in a great amp which is why I've settled on the e11's. The only additional struggle is now finding a dac. Everyone seems to really like the e17's, but it won't work with my phone.

So now im looking for a dac with optical inputs (and usb inputs if possible).

Mhm. It's a shame that the E17 doesn't have Line Out unless you buy the FiiO L7 accessory. In which case I'm not sure if the SPDIF input will be usable anymore (the jack won't be blocked but it seems as if it's USB only at that point). If it had Line Out, you can bypass the E17 amp and use the E11.
 
Now for the DAC that will both have optical input AND work with your phone... you're looking at, generally speaking, at least $200. If you want one with Optical In but not necessarily for your phone, then you're still looking at over your budget of $80 (according to another thread you made). The FiiO D7 DAC might be in your budget but there's no USB-DAC function for that. And I don't even think it's battery powered. So if you want to use that for your Xbox solely, I think you've got something for you right there.
 
Pretty much all the models that CosmicHolyGhost mentioned are over $100 new. Lower cost DAC just aren't common enough... the DAC market is way too niche for that. That's essentially the reason why people are suggesting you to get the E17; a standalone DAC itself will likely cost more than the E17 already. You're basically asking for too much for the budget you're setting. At this point you may as well drop the E11 as well and settle for a better DAC-AMP than the E17... might still be cheaper than a dedicated DAC + E11.
 
From what I remember, optical decoders are also very important. Just finding any DAC with an optical decoder might not always be for the better sound quality... generally speaking, those things are a little pricier in parts costs, so models with better optical decoders are likely to be more expensive for parts sourcing reasons.
 
As for the USB input, most of the time by "USB" they mean PC. Android handsets do have the advantage of software-side modifications to enable the bypassing of the handset's own DAC though. For further information you'd have to ask the Android peeps on the forum.
 
 
Unless you decide to wait for the FiiO E18 which is supposed to be somewhat similar to the E17 in concept but also an Android-supported DAC. I guess the developments of that thing got delayed really long? They were talking about it last year already.

 

[Avataradict23]

Mhm. It's a shame that the E17 doesn't have Line Out unless you buy the FiiO L7 accessory. In which case I'm not sure if the SPDIF input will be usable anymore (the jack won't be blocked but it seems as if it's USB only at that point). If it had Line Out, you can bypass the E17 amp and use the E11.

Now for the DAC that will work with your phone... you're looking at, generally speaking, at least $200. If you want one with Optical In but not necessarily for your phone, then you're still looking at over your budget of $80 (according to another thread you made). The FiiO D7 DAC might be in your budget but there's no USB-DAC function for that. And I don't even think it's battery powered. So if you want to use that for your Xbox solely, I think you've got something for you right there.

Pretty much all the models that CosmicHolyGhost mentioned are over $100 new. Lower cost DAC just aren't common enough... the DAC market is way too niche for that. That's essentially the reason why people are suggesting you to get the E17; a standalone DAC itself will likely cost more than the E17 already. You're basically asking for too much for the budget you're setting. At this point you may as well drop the E11 as well and settle for a better DAC-AMP than the E17... might still be cheaper than a dedicated DAC + E11.

From what I remember, optical decoders are also very important. Just finding any DAC with an optical decoder might not always be for the better sound quality... generally speaking, those things are a little pricier in parts costs, so models with better optical decoders are likely to be more expensive for parts sourcing reasons.

As for the USB input, most of the time by "USB" they mean PC. Android handsets do have the advantage of software-side modifications to enable the bypassing of the handset's own DAC though. For further information you'd have to ask the Android peeps on the forum.


Unless you decide to wait for the FiiO E18 which is supposed to be somewhat similar to the E17 in concept but also an Android-supported DAC. I guess the developments of that thing got delayed really long? They were talking about it last year already.

I followed a thread on android devices and DAC's and I found that most DAC's wont work with android devices because of the android software. I guess I could wait until they release the Fiio e18, but who knows how long that'll take. So for now I guess I'll just have to do with the built in DAC on my phone. Besides, I think having an amp hooked up will be fine enough. As for my xbox, I still need a DAC that can take mini toslink/spdif input. (I'm kind of done looking for a DAC that can be used with my phone AND my xbox, because they're kinda hard to find and they're outside my budget)

Links like the two below show DACs that are more affordable and have been known to be pretty good. I would love a DAC like the ones below but they are USB DACs and do not work with mini toslink/spdif. Do you know of any DACs like the ones below that support just spdif input???

http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325&tag=headfiorg-20&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fgp%2Fredirect.html%3Fie%3DUTF8%26linkCode%3Dur2%26camp%3D1789%26creative%3D9325%26tag%3Dheadfiorg-20%26location%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.amazon.com%252FConverter-Decoder-PCM2704-Black-Cable%252Fdp%252FB008YD36J2%252Fref%253Dsr_1_1%253Fie%253DUTF8%2526qid%253D1372581538%2526sr%253D8-1%2526keywords%253Dmuse%252Baudio%252Busb%252Bmini%252Bdac


http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?ie=UTF8&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325&tag=headfiorg-20&location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fgp%2Fredirect.html%3Fie%3DUTF8%26linkCode%3Dur2%26camp%3D1789%26creative%3D9325%26tag%3Dheadfiorg-20%26location%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.amazon.com%252FHiFiMan-HM-101-Portable-Sound-Card%252Fdp%252FB0066AHES4%252Fref%253Dsr_1_15%253Fs%253Delectronics%2526ie%253DUTF8%2526qid%253D1372581694%2526sr%253D1-15%2526keywords%253Dusb%252Bdac

 

[kalbee]

Haha xD why is the amazon picture of the HM101 a HE-300!
 
Someone just posted some very helpful info regarding Android and DACs.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/6030#post_9657384
Of course, it only lists two different amp/DACs but at least it gives us an understanding about it.
And according to this other post: http://www.head-fi.org/t/587912/fiio-e17-alpen-first-impression-final-thought/6015#post_9656745
Seems Android do have the option of bypassing DAC easily, long as the Android version is compatible with the DAC in question.
Which, frankly is the hard to know part :S
 
Yeah... both of those don't have optical IN. The Muse Audio one seems to only have Optical Out, like most DACs.
Like I previously mentioned though, if it's solely for use with your xbox and not with your phone, the FiiO D07 or D03K.
Priced at $50 and $28 respectively on amazon.com.
Both will have 3.5mm LINE OUT only, so unless you're connecting speakers you'll need to put your E11 in line to control the volume if using with headphones.
http://fiio.com.cn/products/index.aspx?ID=100000027553125&MenuID=105026003     <--- D03K
http://fiio.com.cn/products/index.aspx?ID=100000039443512&MenuID=105026003     <--- D07
Amazon seems to show also another make when I searched for "FiiO D07" though I've not heard of it before... could be good, but since we're all familiar with FiiO, why not xP

 

[inthere]

You do NOT need a DAC. The Galaxy Note 2 sounds HORRIBLE coming out the box. I heard no clarity and instrument separation at all. I looked around the net and found these settings helped tremendously:
 
 

 

 
 Of course you can make changes as you see fit, and the E11 will work fine, but if you don't use these settings or something similar your phone will sound terrible.