[peelax]

Quote:

No it isn't learn physics of electrical components first before you comment. "The problem is that any insulating material next to a conductor acts like a capacitor which stores and later releases energy. This is true of circuit board materials, cables, resistors and of course capacitors. The ideal wire is one with no insulation except for air. When a solid material must be applied, it should be electrically invisible, meaning that the less energy it absorbs, the better. The energy which is absorbed should stay absorbed (turned into heat, a high dissipation factor), and the energy which does come back into the metal conductor should have minimal phase shift and not be frequency selective (a high velocity of propagation, independent of frequency). All dielectrics absorb more energy at higher frequencies, but some are more linear in their overall behavior relative to frequency." The knowledge of sceptics is mumbo jumbo.

Shouldn't you tell off Tourm too kwkarth

Where was the info from Tourm? I have a nice counter article:

http://www.audioholics.com/education...ables-debunked

Here is a nice one about Skin effect:

http://www.audioholics.com/education...-cables-page-3

Quote:

Unlike many of the myriads of cable companies on the market today, there ain't no smoke and mirrors here!

hehe

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by peelax /img/forum/go_quote.gif Shouldn't you tell off Tourm too kwkarth Where was the info from Tourm? I have a nice counter article: http://www.audioholics.com/education...ables-debunked Here is a nice one about Skin effect: http://www.audioholics.com/education...-cables-page-3 hehe

I suppose you're right. I guess I missed that one.
tourmaline, straighten up and fly right! Cool down papa, don't you blow your top!
Thanks!

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif I suppose you're right. I guess I missed that one. tourmaline, straighten up and fly right! Cool down papa, don't you blow your top! Thanks!

yes daddy.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by peelax /img/forum/go_quote.gif Shouldn't you tell off Tourm too kwkarth Where was the info from Tourm? I have a nice counter article: http://www.audioholics.com/education...ables-debunked Here is a nice one about Skin effect: http://www.audioholics.com/education...-cables-page-3 hehe

I didn't start the mumbo jumbo part.

he doesn't debunk it, as a matter afact he confirms this effect exists. he states it isn't audible like anything else.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by peelax /img/forum/go_quote.gif Shouldn't you tell off Tourm too kwkarth Where was the info from Tourm? I have a nice counter article: http://www.audioholics.com/education...ables-debunked Here is a nice one about Skin effect: http://www.audioholics.com/education...-cables-page-3 hehe

These articles are about speaker cables , not line level interconnects. I agree, many things that are important factors with interconnects are insignificant with speaker cables. Our thread is about line level interconnects as far as I know. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
[size=large]
Let's not get the two mixed up.[/size] There's a world of difference, and it's a different discussion entirely, just as it would be for power cords.

 

[sugarinthegourd]

If speaker cables don't have problems with dielectric capacitance, then line-level interconnects certainly don't!

As one of those excellent articles concludes:

Quote:

this theory cannot be sound as it violates basic Electrical Engineering Principles, the Laws of Physics, and common sense.

A perfect summary of some of the pseudo-science that is bandied about by cable manufacturers, 6moons reviews, and in many of these threads.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarinthegourd /img/forum/go_quote.gif If speaker cables don't have problems with dielectric capacitance, then line-level interconnects certainly don't! As one of those excellent articles concludes: A perfect summary of some of the pseudo-science that is bandied about by cable manufacturers, 6moons reviews, and in many of these threads.

You've got it backwards.

Please do not confuse speaker cable with interconnects. They are two entirely different worlds. Line level interconnects are FAR more sensitive to all forms of loading, real or imaginary, lumped, or discrete. (FYI, I'm using the words real and imaginary in the engineering sense of resistance and reactance...just for fun.) BTW, interconnects are also vulnerable to RFI and EMI, far more so than speaker cables. As a matter of fact, the only vulnerability that speaker cables have to EMI and RFI is with regards to any of that getting back into the amp via the negative feedback loop.

So let's keep things straight.

Nonetheless, here's a more relevant article from Audioholics that supports folks that say they cannot hear interconnect differences:

http://www.audioholics.com/education...-cables-page-5

In my humble opinion, it contains some very good factual information and also a measure of subjective bias. That's ok, most everything you could read is biased one way or the other anyway. There's probably more good than bad. It's worth the read anyway.
Cheers!

 

[Superpredator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif Your deleted post was a direct attack on a single individual, and further, added nothing new to the discussion: So play nice and your posts won't disappear, k? I'm trying my best to be objective here. The peacemaker usually takes fire from both sides. So be it.

Ha, that was not an attack. That was pure stanky facetiousness at its best, and not at all directed at philodox, who I rather agree with most of the time.

As to whether the post added something new to the discussion, well, I think you should grade me on the curve.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superpredator /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ha, that was not an attack. That was pure stanky facetiousness at its best, and not at all directed at philodox, who I rather agree with most of the time. As to whether the post added something new to the discussion, well, I think you should grade me on the curve.

Well, geeze, if I grade on a curve you'd get an A+. That wouldn't be any fun, would it?

 

[Quaddy]

so does this thread win the record for the most admin rebuttles?

it sure is interesting material to read, everyones knowledge is amazing!!

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaddy /img/forum/go_quote.gif so does this thread win the record for the most admin rebuttles? it sure is interesting material to read, everyones knowledge is amazing!!

There are a lot of smart cookies around here!

As far as my participation goes, my posts, for the most part, are just me participating as a fellow enthusiast. I try to keep the two hats separate as much as possible.
I only put on the mod hat to try and keep things congenial so we can all learn from one another.

 

[Quaddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif There are a lot of smart cookies around here!

you do very well, i am not licking admin @$$ here, but your replies are long and complex and well thought out, and i think you balance the guardian-peer thing rather decently.

i am a half eaten cookie at the moment, knowledge wize, maybe thats too generous, but would like oneday to be a fully formed chewy white choc and pecan cookie!

p.s. i will jump off this thread now. sry.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaddy /img/forum/go_quote.gif you do very well, i am not licking admin @$$ here, but your replies are long and complex and well thought out, and i think you balance the guardian-peer thing rather decently. i am a half eaten cookie at the moment, knowledge wize, maybe thats too generous, but would like oneday to be a fully formed chewy white choc and pecan cookie! p.s. i will jump off this thread now. sry.

Thanks I appreciate a pat on the back once in a while. I do try my best, but usually, I'm only a half baked cookie most of the time..... wait a minute... that has another connotation as well.... ah, never mind.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaddy /img/forum/go_quote.gif you do very well, i am not licking admin @$$ here, but your replies are long and complex and well thought out, and i think you balance the guardian-peer thing rather decently. i am a half eaten cookie at the moment, knowledge wize, maybe thats too generous, but would like oneday to be a fully formed chewy white choc and pecan cookie! p.s. i will jump off this thread now. sry.

He's really needed in threads like these, believe me! Some other cable threads are closed down because they turned really nasty in no-time!

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sugarinthegourd /img/forum/go_quote.gif If speaker cables don't have problems with dielectric capacitance, then line-level interconnects certainly don't! As one of those excellent articles concludes: A perfect summary of some of the pseudo-science that is bandied about by cable manufacturers, 6moons reviews, and in many of these threads.

"With a nominal 4ohm impedance speaker, the resistive losses at these cable lengths would dominate and result in over 2.4dB of signal loss alone, not to mention destroying the damping factor of the system. Add in the reactance losses (inductance and capacitance) and we see a whopping 11dB of loss (not factoring in any potential amplifier stability issues from the high reactance of the cable).

I guess you did miss this one. Do you think 11db isn't audible?! Ok, it's a long cable but it's there!
If we translate that to way more sensative IC's, you could see on this scale an audible signal loss.

For IC's it gets even worse, since the signal is a magnitude smaller then in speaker cable.

Also, people who measured cables do recognize inductance and capacitance as the two main factors of how a cable sounds.

"(not factoring in any potential amplifier stability issues from the high reactance of the cable)."




This explains nicely why some cables sound better on one system then another.

So, as a matter afact he doesn't debunk anything, he even confirms what i posted in several threads.

The question is, who can hear a difference between 0.5db to 3db, that's the figures we're talking about in IC's.

Some can, some don't.