[XXII]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoYouRight /img/forum/go_quote.gif Considering I am building a 6 board B22. I will NOT be using balanced phones atm. I will have a balanced DAC via a M-Audio transit for the optical out of my pc. Is it not worth going balanced? Even if I want to try balanced in the future.

I didn't know you could go more than 4 boards.. What are the extra 2 boards for??

 

[El_Doug]

Quote:

Originally Posted by XXII /img/forum/go_quote.gif I didn't know you could go more than 4 boards.. What are the extra 2 boards for??

4 boards are for balanced cans, then you have the option of 2x active-ground single ended

 

[smeggy]

I think my way of looking at it is not so much 'is balanced better' but is balanced amp X better than SE amp Y at the same price.

For instance, would a balanced SOHA II be better than a SE Stacker II. I somehow doubt it. So for any given sum, I'd rather head for a better SE than lesser Balanced amp. Of course, when you hit the top end of things that's less of a consideration. Most of us aren't rich enough for uncompromised awesome so I get what's best for any given sum if I can.

 

[atothex]

Yeah, I'm with Smeg. Balanced at the tippy top is totally worth it. Is balanced M3 about the same price as SE B22? I wouldn't mind a shootout of those 2.

 

[DoYouRight]

Yes the active grounds got me as the base SE has 3 boards so why would I sacrifice the active grounds on a bigger build? Most of those with Balanced use it mostly and SE is just in case, for me nothing is balanced yet so SE hawtness and balanced in the future.

 

[DoYouRight]

so for cans, do you think these are good balanced?

Denons Dxxx
Grados HF-2
AT
Beyerdynamic DT880

 

[plonter]

Hi all, just found this thread and it is just what i looked for, a good info on balanced drive.
I decided that i want to balanced my HD650. now...I read in here that using a phase splitter (like the headroom BUDA got) with a single ended source is pretty much the same as using balanced source.

I have a headroom ultra micro dac which i think is very good (currently used with the ultra micro amp) and I thought of gettin the headroom BUDA to go with it, but i still concernes about the phase splitter issue agains a balanced source input. ( with phase splitter the signal is going thourgh some kind of process...I can compare it to using an adapter for headphones)
what is the final conclusion about this? will I still be better using a balanced dac?

 

[audioaffair]

Make sure that when a product is advertised as "balanced" it is a genuine balanced design, as some designs include XLR sockets but these are taken from an unbalanced RCA feed. All things being equal, a fully balanced system should sound better!

 

[ting.mike]

I thought the Hi-End board members mostly have a balanced set up. But not so much reply for such a big question?

 

[plonter]

I am really amazed by my HD650+ headroom ultra micro stack rig, and the sound is so good that I can't even imagine better sound than this.

my next step will probably be going balanced (can't run away from it) because this seems to be the only upgrade that will improve the sound even more. ofcourse it will take some time until I get the money for it, but I started to do some reading about balanced drive.

will all the different comments about if it's worth to go balanced, I am really confused. I am afraid to shell out all my money on a balanced rig and than get dissapointed from what I will get. I need to be sure that the improvement is there and that it's not subtle.

If i will decide to go for a balanced rig I will probably get the headroom buda and maybe the ultra dac to go with it, but I have no way to listen to this gear or any other balanced rigs anywhere in my country,so I will have to buy this gear blindly, only from what I read around here.
can someone be more specific about the differences and improvements in sound going from SE drive to balanced?
thanks!

 

[regal]

The balanced vs unbalanced issue is very complicated and not as simple as shown in this thread.

First lets talk about sources. Modern DAC chips all have balanced outputs. most of the DACs sold only take one side of the output, ie they don't do an unbalanced to balanced transfer which rejects power supply noise. So thats why people say you MUST have a balanced source to have the benefits of a balanced system. This is not true you just need a properly designed DAC.

As far as amps go, most of the benefit with a balanced amp is again CMRR, and also doubling of gain and power. Again a well designed unbalanced amp can do all these things.

IMO going balanced is just a way to deal with mediocre designed equipment. Sure you hear benefits, but not anymore than had the equipment been designed right in the first place.

 

[El_Doug]

Quote:

Originally Posted by regal /img/forum/go_quote.gif IMO going balanced is just a way to deal with mediocre designed equipment. Sure you hear benefits, but not anymore than had the equipment been designed right in the first place.

so you would suggest that there is always a better circuit, and that even when you have a spectacular design, balancing it won't help?

that is to say, if I have a B22, it would be more pertinent to design an even MORE sophisticated amp, than to balance it?


I don't buy it

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by regal /img/forum/go_quote.gif As far as amps go, most of the benefit with a balanced amp is again CMRR...

Except that many, if not most of the so-called "balanced" headphone amps are made using pairs of bridged amplifier channels. This method provides no common-more rejection. Instead, it will provide common-mode amplification.

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_Doug /img/forum/go_quote.gif so you would suggest that there is always a better circuit, and that even when you have a spectacular design, balancing it won't help?

Help what though? That's the question. What's the problem you seek to solve by bridging?

Quote:

that is to say, if I have a B22, it would be more pertinent to design an even MORE sophisticated amp, than to balance it?

Or perhaps just stick with the B22.

What aspect of the B22's design is so poor that it requires bridging a pair of them in order to fix it?

se

 

[regal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif What aspect of the B22's design is so poor that it requires bridging a pair of them in order to fix it? se

Exactly!

The only benefit is to balancing is increased gain as the B22 is relatively low gain and not enough for 600 ohm phones. The nirvana people hear with balanced HD650s (also relatively high ohm phones) is just more gain on the volume knob. Some folks have weak output on their source and need the gain.

 

[Born2bwire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by regal /img/forum/go_quote.gif IMO going balanced is just a way to deal with mediocre designed equipment. Sure you hear benefits, but not anymore than had the equipment been designed right in the first place.

Most balanced amplifiers that people like are very good single-ended amplifiers in their own right. I doubt you would find many people that consider the Headroom Ultra Desktop, Beta22, or RSA Apache to be mediocre when operated single-ended. In fact, it is my recollection that mid-range and low-range balanced amplifiers are a much more recent phenomenon.