[Aeneas]

I lost my 64 Audio A12 a while back and I’m looking at various CIEMs after being disappointed by over-ear ANC options (for the office and for travel).

The way I see it, if I’m going to get a CIEM, I might as well get a good one because I’ll only regret it if I don’t. I’m looking at hybrid models, so 64 Audio N8 is top of my list. UE Live is another but the proprietary cable and 1 year warranty is a concern. JHA Lola seems less versatile.

When I bought the A12 I was using FLAC files on a Sony ZX2. These days all I have is my iPhone and Apple Music. I’m locked-in because I use a HomePod and Apple TV, as well as a Mac. And I like the convenience. Hopefully lossless streaming on Apple Music isn’t too far away.

The only all-the-time source upgrades would probably involve Bluetooth, e.g. Radsone ES100 (own) or Fostex TM-2 (intriguing but not cheap. I could get a Mojo, but I can’t see myself using it more than 20% of the time because it’s not truly portable.

So, would CIEMs like these be wasted on the source?

 

[kukkurovaca]

I don't know this market segment, but the ES100 is a very nice DAC/amp for all but the hardest-to-drive IEMs. (Meaning, IEMs that are very low-sensitivity/high-impedance, of which there are not many.)

The only question is, will you find AAC bluetooth quality restrictive in comparison to high-res FLACs. I don't notice it in practice myself, but again I don't have TOTL IEMs. I do have an iSine 20 which is supposed to be pretty competitive, but I usually run it off an ALO CDM since I only use it while sitting at my desk. : )

But I could do some comparisons next week if nobody chimes in with a more directly relevant report.

 

[Raketen]

I don't think it's necessarily a waste.
I've read a few reputable people that consider the iPhone dongle pretty capable.
It's really down to the headphones requirements and your level of pickiness- threadsearch or ask on the chosen IEM thread to hopefully get some perspectives on iDongle listening.
Of course there are always alternative dongles (inc ES100 via USB, at least on Android/Windows it works).
Would suggest a 2.5mm cable for the ES100 if you don't already have.

Bluetooth might be more troublesome, with already lossy source files being recompressed over BT. I use this type of setup sometimes, (w/ UIEMs and ES100 or DAP, via phone Tidal app and LDAC/AptxHD BT) doesn't always sound great but generally tolerable- again depends on your headphones and personal pickiness.

 

[CoryGillmore]

Ugh you LOST a 64 A12? What happened man? Airport?

BTW I vote no. It’s still worth it to get a high end custom with iPhone and Apple Music. There are some who argue that 256aac is transparent enough to not show any differences for most users.

 

[surfgeorge]

I voted YES - it would be a waste to use a TOTL IEM with only an iPhone.
I own a handful of IEMs, not even TOTL except maybe the Astell & Kern T8iE MKII, and listen to them almost always through the Chord Mojo.
The difference IMO is so substantial, that I simply don't feel like listening to music without it, even when I try.

Phones do sound decent, but the question is how much you need to spend to extract most of the SQ they are able to deliver.

If money is no issue it still may make a lot of sense to get a TOTL for use with the phone, it may give you the best SQ you can get from it, if it's an easy load that's not hissing or sensitive to high impedance.
If it's about getting the best SQ with a given budget, part of the budget is better spent on a good DAC/Amp IMO.

 

[baskingshark]

I lost my 64 Audio A12 a while back and I’m looking at various CIEMs after being disappointed by over-ear ANC options (for the office and for travel).

The way I see it, if I’m going to get a CIEM, I might as well get a good one because I’ll only regret it if I don’t. I’m looking at hybrid models, so 64 Audio N8 is top of my list. UE Live is another but the proprietary cable and 1 year warranty is a concern. JHA Lola seems less versatile.

When I bought the A12 I was using FLAC files on a Sony ZX2. These days all I have is my iPhone and Apple Music. I’m locked-in because I use a HomePod and Apple TV, as well as a Mac. And I like the convenience. Hopefully lossless streaming on Apple Music isn’t too far away.

The only all-the-time source upgrades would probably involve Bluetooth, e.g. Radsone ES100 (own) or Fostex TM-2 (intriguing but not cheap. I could get a Mojo, but I can’t see myself using it more than 20% of the time because it’s not truly portable.

So, would CIEMs like these be wasted on the source?

I voted YES - it would be a waste to use a TOTL IEM with only an iPhone.
I own a handful of IEMs, not even TOTL except maybe the Astell & Kern T8iE MKII, and listen to them almost always through the Chord Mojo.
The difference IMO is so substantial, that I simply don't feel like listening to music without it, even when I try.

Phones do sound decent, but the question is how much you need to spend to extract most of the SQ they are able to deliver.

If money is no issue it still may make a lot of sense to get a TOTL for use with the phone, it may give you the best SQ you can get from it, if it's an easy load that's not hissing or sensitive to high impedance.
If it's about getting the best SQ with a given budget, part of the budget is better spent on a good DAC/Amp IMO.

Yeah sounds like good advise, the source might be a bottleneck IMHO. Personally, I do find a difference for some of my higher end IEMs with a dedicated DAC/AMP compared to just a low end android smartphone with low end DAC.

When I first started out in this hobby, quite a few experienced audiophiles told me to upgrade what is nearest to the ears first (eg transducers like IEMs/headphones), and later to go downstream to upgrade the source and sourcefile if there's still cash available. They said the upgrading of downstream stuff has diminishing returns compared to upgrading the transducer. But I think if the OP already has a 5 star source like a high end CIEM, the bottle neck will definitely be at the downstream areas, though how much we wanna pay for marginal gains (and whether u can hear the difference subjectively) is another story entirely.

I know one audiophile who uses a $2K USD headphone to listen to youtube files mainly, so whatever rocks your boat! Most important is to enjoy the music with your gear!

 

[kukkurovaca]

I've definitely spent more on amps than I'm "supposed to" relative to what I've spent on headphones. : ) I think there's something to be said for getting whatever overall setup will get you the most enjoyment.
Given that the OP is comitted to their iPhone and doesn't want to do a whole stacking situation, I think "get an ES100 and don't worry about it" is a good solution.

(And it's my solution. I'm pro-stacking, but I'd rather stack the ES100 with an amp than my phone with an amp.)