[wirbeltier]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hciman77 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I used to do the rounds of the hifi stores in Tottenham Court Road in London and the showrooms there used to very clearly distinguish between the okay stuff and the high end stuff so you were never in any doubt about what kind of kit you were listening to. Same with the hiFi shows I went to occaisionally, I will admit I did hear some very nice stuff, which I could not afford back then Amongst my pals I probably had the most expensive kit, which isnt saying much, though I always thought my friends Sansui/Arcam/Kef setup sounded better than my Rega/A&R/Kef stereo...

...the grass is always greener...yah....know that

 

[Sherwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by morphsci /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks, I do know what a studio "performance" is but the point I was trying to make is that what matters to me is how it sounds to me. If it sounds better with component A then I will use component A. I have been auditioning different CDP's in my system for over three years now and there are differences between them and that is what counts for me.

See, here is where we differ. I just don't consider my ears to be definitive in terms of what sounds good and what doesn't. Surely, I don't purchase anything that sounds bad, but my (admittedly short) listening tests are affected by variables I can't control. I'm sure these variables would be mitigated by a three month in-home audition, but barring that I'm more inclined to trust measurements than my ears. Measurements aren't affected by what I had for lunch that, or my prejudices about whether it is better to be too warm or too analytical. I think that's just fundamental.

 

[Morph201]

Who says transports don't make a difference?! I tried using a cheesy samsumg dvd as a transport, the sound was terrible, very grainy, and after 45 mins of use, it would serve me breakfast! Yeah snap, crackle, and pop, but without the rice crispies!!

I switched to my laptop via usb, CLEEAN!

 

[neilvg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif See, here is where we differ. I just don't consider my ears to be definitive in terms of what sounds good and what doesn't. Surely, I don't purchase anything that sounds bad, but my (admittedly short) listening tests are affected by variables I can't control. I'm sure these variables would be mitigated by a three month in-home audition, but barring that I'm more inclined to trust measurements than my ears. Measurements aren't affected by what I had for lunch that, or my prejudices about whether it is better to be too warm or too analytical. I think that's just fundamental.

Generally speaking, these comments are usually seen by those who have little experience as a whole, with audio, are of a scientifically minded type, and likely, do not have very sensitive ears.

Regardless of the so called variables, and given just the moment at hand, if I walk into some high end shop and put my very familiar demo CD in, I can tell right away what sounds good and what does not. I am not always comparing what sounds better or worse, I simply listen for what I like in the present. I have heard very simple and inexpensive setups sound amazing, and I have heard very expensive one's sound horrible.

If you don't trust your ears and rely and only rely on measurements, that too is a from of 'hearing what you want', and undoubtedly, 'believing that is must be great since it measures right' will have you hear what you want as well.

Personally, I am not looking for ultimate neutrality, or even ultimate technical perfection. I am looking for a useful coloration that brings me ultimate enjoyment!

Neil

 

[Icarium]

Yup. The DIY beta22 and dynamight variants measure better than any commercially made amp that I know of. Hell I doubt tube amps can even really compete in the terms of pure measurements yet people still favor that direction quite a bit at the low to mid end and the high end. Why? Because they trust their ears.

 

[Sherwood]

An interesting subjective measure of quality, Neil. I guess in the end your ears are what truly enjoys the music. In that sense, measurements truly are just another way of hearing what you want.

 

[neilvg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif Frankly, I take offense to the insinuation that I'm inexperienced with audio, or don't have sensitive ears. You don't know me, Neil. You don't know my experience. I hope you're not using my comments to justify your own decisions.

Sherwood I don't mean to offend you in anyway and if I have done so, I apologize. I simply mean to point out, using your last post as an example, for those I know who seem to only trust measurements and not their own experience. From those I know, they generally have these similar comments when in reality they lack experience with trusting their ears and also tend to just favor technical specs over anything else anyway. These same people like a lot of new gadgets because they are the best technically, not because they have seen them and like them.

But I digress, I do not mean to point to you specifically, and again, my intentions are not to attack anybody specifically, but rather, being that this is a forum, to use the previous posts as examples to state my own thoughts.

Trust me, if I wanted to specifically attack you, Sherwood, which I don't, after all, it was you who started this fine but sometimes heated thread, I would do it by using your name specifically. I just happen to have a slight chip on my shoulder since so many seem to think that there is no way a so called 'high end cdp' can sound better. I'm not here to say that everyone who believes this way is wrong, your mileage may vary, but I do think that those who vehemently say so should at least listen to a variety, in their own setup, and determine if this is in fact true. Those who have done this, and still prefer their computer based audio setup through a DAC1 or Zhalou or whatever it may be, well more power to you then. You guys just saved a lot of money and you still love how your systems sound!

Neil

 

[nickrobotron]

A CD player was never worth 1K. Get into vinyl. The only medium worth investing in. 8 tracks are gone, cassettes are gone, CD's will soon be gone. Vinyl is forever.

 

[Sherwood]

Undoubtedly my mistake entirely, Neil. Thank you for your gracious reply. Consider my first post edited as of right now.

 

[soundberry]

I tested a Harmony dac connected to a Marantz 5400 (250 $):the quality increse as a player doubled the price,not so much.

Than I used the same DAC connected at the cd 5 Consonance (3000 $) player used as transporter : off course sound strongly better than with the marantz.

There was no difference in quality between the internal or external dac.

So the transport is strongly important.

At the end I use a portable pc (fujitsu siemens amilo) with an usb-dac costing 50 $ and I get the same sound.

Using Audes Excellence 5,valve pre Vincent , and a two mono hybrid power amplifiers by Vincent too.

Many things to say ,no?

 

[wirbeltier]

...just changed my setup from single box cdp (Myryad MCD600, also listened to Naim CD5x and Meridian G08) to a two box solution with cyrus discmaster as transport and an Audio Note DAC Zero.

What an improvement.... More of everything, punchy, big and very musical...a whole new experience, even when coming from a previous decent setup.

 

[PbR]

My head goes with Audio Critic, my heart with "Sterophile"; and my wallet (such as in its pitiable state now) leans towards AC; when it fills to ~$1M, then I am sure I will go for the big ones!!

 

[tbonner1]

The differences in high end CDP's are subtle at best. I have been burned spending big money on players that were outdated withing months and replaced by new technology.

I like the idea of getting a good basic transport with low jitter and connecting to a modern DAC.

My $400 Presonus DAC and $42 Phillips 642 (modded) transport performs close to my $1200 single box CDP's on redbook.

 

[milkpowder]

Well... depends

I've heard fairly radically different-sounding CD/SACDPs before, but have also experienced the opposite between two significantly differently-priced SACDPs. It can be subtle, but can also be very obvious depending on the CDPs in question. YMMV.

 

[chesebert]

Hi-End is all about subtleties. What is the difference between Yo Yo Ma and your average professional cello player? very very small when you look from the perspective of playing cello as a whole. But those small difference means everything in the enjoyment of music. YoYo Ma can bring tear to your eyes, OTOH, the average professional cello player will just make you semi-entertained. Small absolute difference, big perceived difference.

I feel CDP or any Hi-End equipment is kind like that....the last 5% is really the most important.