Is a computer a good source?!
Dec 9, 2010 at 1:27 PM Post #16 of 106

danielghofrani

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I thought I could put a passive heatsink with headpipes on my video card and it died because of how hot it got.  Inside a case air needs to move, period.  Listening to music loud doesn't kill your hearing.  I listen to music loud but not too loud.  You can feel hearing damage.  Badly mastered loudness war crap is what kills hearing because it's constant loud.  A track with good dynamic range varies the levels of sound at your ears.  Listening to music quietly makes no use of dynamic range.  You might as well use speakers.  A computer will never hit a pure 0 dB of audible noise.



Thanks for your concern friend. OK maybe not 0dB. how about 5dB (no optical drives, no hard disk drives no fans anywhere)?
the quietest fans out there are at least 15dB of noise.
if I do make a computer like that I will not put it in a case, the mother board will sit on the table.
there are now fanless 0dB power supplies, SSDs, low power low heat processors (such as intel Atom).
when you fried your Video Card you probably had multiple harddrives, ram modules, a multi core processor, ... in the case.
you cant compare that system with the system I just mentioned.
just for your information, I am not your average joe getting hyped about making a new system. I used to assemble PCs in MDG computers before I came to university for computer engineeing.
if you still think that a passive cooled PC is impossible check out this website:http://www.stealthcomputer.com/
 
Dec 9, 2010 at 1:36 PM Post #17 of 106

ramicio

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OK so paying for a degree gives you the world's experience and all the world's knowledge.  Why come here asking people for input if you are some awesome professional that went to school for something that can just be learned by first hand experience and reading a little?  I already said before it would be fine sitting on a table.  I was exaggerating my comment about the ceiling fan.  I wouldn't have a computer without a metal case.  It will serve to shield the components from the world and all of the radio waves flying around everywhere constantly.  Those systems are pathetic in that link.  A REAL computer can't be put in a DIN sized case.  People seem to think you can only build a desktop computer and it only be marginally good at a share of multiple things when in fact they can excel in many areas.  Dinky DIN computers serve one purpose.  Why not just get a DAC for the laptop?  Also a power supply company claiming 0 dB is nonsense.  For now all power supplies use a transformer, which creates audible noise.
 
Dec 9, 2010 at 1:55 PM Post #18 of 106

Meelis

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Nothing has ever been proven regarding noise inside the PC.  It's just a way for purists to sell more unnecessary crap.  They think because there is audible noise inside that it means electrical noise.  A computer does billions of cycles per second, wouldn't that be affected by some supposed electrical noise before a kHz level sound card?



Yes computer 24 bit 192 kHz sound is much worse than my PHILIPS psa cd12 with 1 bit DAC.
1'st never no external unwanted noises, 2nt clean natural sound when EQ is default = 0.
 
Noise starts at 20 sec
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4PHK4KcgEg
 
Dec 9, 2010 at 2:02 PM Post #19 of 106

ramicio

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What is that supposed to be?  I can hear people talking so it sounds like it is from a microphone.  I don't get what you are trying to prove with that.  PCM vs. DSD is a whole other debate.
 
Dec 9, 2010 at 2:19 PM Post #20 of 106

Meelis

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What is that supposed to be?  I can hear people talking so it sounds like it is from a microphone.  I don't get what you are trying to prove with that.  PCM vs. DSD is a whole other debate.



Yes i recorded noise with microphone.
It comes when CPU is under load.
Logitech speakers z-2300 are on max volume 200 watts RMS.
------
 
Sorry noob here, what's "PCM vs. DSD"?
 
I looked the headline "Is a computer a good source"
I want to say it's not. The sound quality is as good as weakest part in change.
 
Dec 9, 2010 at 2:26 PM Post #21 of 106

ramicio

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DSD would be a 1-bit DAC...SACD are DSD.  PCM has to be converted to it.  You're trying to compare onboard sound with a microphone to playing music over a good sound card.  Apples and oranges.  A lot of onboard sound use the CPU to do its processing, so the noise could be from that and not necessarily some electrical interference.
 
Dec 9, 2010 at 2:58 PM Post #22 of 106

Meelis

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Quote:
DSD would be a 1-bit DAC...SACD are DSD.  PCM has to be converted to it.  You're trying to compare onboard sound with a microphone to playing music over a good sound card.  Apples and oranges.  A lot of onboard sound use the CPU to do its processing, so the noise could be from that and not necessarily some electrical interference.



I used microphone because the noise isn't there when i record sound directly (stereo mix / record from speakers output into file).
Maybe ASUS Xonar Essence ST/X is better than int, but where the line goes?
If good sound card has connection with hardware that already has problems, can i trust it?
 
I'm just afraid, bad motherboard will ruine sound quality of good sound card. Will it?
 
Dec 9, 2010 at 3:27 PM Post #24 of 106

danielghofrani

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OK so paying for a degree gives you the world's experience and all the world's knowledge.  Why come here asking people for input if you are some awesome professional that went to school for something that can just be learned by first hand experience and reading a little?  I already said before it would be fine sitting on a table.  I was exaggerating my comment about the ceiling fan.  I wouldn't have a computer without a metal case.  It will serve to shield the components from the world and all of the radio waves flying around everywhere constantly.  Those systems are pathetic in that link.  A REAL computer can't be put in a DIN sized case.  People seem to think you can only build a desktop computer and it only be marginally good at a share of multiple things when in fact they can excel in many areas.  Dinky DIN computers serve one purpose.  Why not just get a DAC for the laptop?  Also a power supply company claiming 0 dB is nonsense.  For now all power supplies use a transformer, which creates audible noise.


first of all I am not an awesome comptuer professional, I am an instrumentalist.
second of all I did not say going to university gives you all the knowledge in the world, my point was "I dont assemble PC's anymore because I am in university"
also I am here for input in order to learn, I never said I know everything.
I dont have a problem with a DAC on a laptop, but it cant be my laptop because the acoustic noise from the fan makes it not worth it, that is the whole reason I want a low noise computer. and to this day i have not seen an absolutely quiet computer with fans on it.
thanks for the advice on the metal shield around the computer to shield it from radio waves, I did not think too hard about that. however I still dont think it plays a role if you have a DAC inside a metal case. all I want is USB out from a quiet PC. and go from there.
 
Dec 9, 2010 at 3:34 PM Post #25 of 106

ramicio

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Well a cased computer is going to get hot regardless of it being lower power.  You need 1 fan at least to get heat out of the case.  I would just build one with a sound card, too.  Those passive computers work because the heatsink IS the case and they are crazy underpowered.  I wouldn't figure the components stay as cool as a real computer with a fan or two in it.
 
Dec 9, 2010 at 4:14 PM Post #26 of 106

danielghofrani

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Well a cased computer is going to get hot regardless of it being lower power.  You need 1 fan at least to get heat out of the case.  I would just build one with a sound card, too.  Those passive computers work because the heatsink IS the case and they are crazy underpowered.  I wouldn't figure the components stay as cool as a real computer with a fan or two in it.



 
 
Dec 9, 2010 at 4:26 PM Post #27 of 106

danielghofrani

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Quote:
Well a cased computer is going to get hot regardless of it being lower power.  You need 1 fan at least to get heat out of the case.  I would just build one with a sound card, too.  Those passive computers work because the heatsink IS the case and they are crazy underpowered.  I wouldn't figure the components stay as cool as a real computer with a fan or two in it.


    I see, 
what if I leave the motherboard without a case passively cooled, but I connect it to a DAC in a metal case? is there going to be ElectroMagnetic interference still?
by the way I apologize if I offended you with my attitude.
 
Dec 9, 2010 at 4:57 PM Post #28 of 106

ramicio

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What are you planning on playing?  I prefer sound cards because I like HD music and the USB DACs that can do 24/192 are really expensive.  Any DAC should be shielded already anyway.  I don't see why you can't just use a fan.  A 120mm slow fan won't ruin your musical experience.  You can even run 7 or 5 volts to it instead of 12.
 
Dec 9, 2010 at 6:58 PM Post #29 of 106

danielghofrani

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[size=medium]


Quote:
What are you planning on playing?  I prefer sound cards because I like HD music and the USB DACs that can do 24/192 are really expensive.  Any DAC should be shielded already anyway.  I don't see why you can't just use a fan.  A 120mm slow fan won't ruin your musical experience.  You can even run 7 or 5 volts to it instead of 12.




 
probably you are right and there are high end low noise fans out there. but I never came across noiseless fans. (then again I always assembled computers with stock cpu fans and massive noisy psu fans.
currently my laptop makes quite a lot of noise and I think it only has one fan. 
if I make a desktop it will only be used to play music, I need the digital out to feed through a DAC and AMP, I already use my laptop for everything else.
so I am probably fine with an atom processor even.
also, I dont know what you mean by transformers making audible noise. I agree that they create a substantial hum out of your headphone (line out) jack but there is no Acoustic noise coming out from them, ( I actually never had a fanless power supply to listen to it in quiet though)
[/size]

 
Dec 9, 2010 at 7:15 PM Post #30 of 106

TheKisho

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You could try submerging your PC in mineral oil to cool it. Link.  You really want to make sure you've got the setup just how you like it else it's a mess to clean up and change after you do this.
 
Alternatively you can sound proof your case or buy a sound proofed case (Cooler Master has one at the top end of their line up that cuts the noise down a fair amount).  Paired with quality quiet fans and some larger slower fans you should be able to cut noise output nicely.  You can find sites on how to sound proof your case if you search for quiet PC.  What you should aim for is close to your standard room noise as possible, if not lower.  If you can get a passively cooled power supplythat meet your requirements and reduce the case fans down to two (one bring air in and one pulling it out).  If you have a graphics card in the machine [if it has a fan] and you don't use the machine for gaming buy an inexpensive passively cooled card.  I'd recommend DAC that accepts optical or coax out of the PC's on board sound [optical is highly recommend].  It would be cheaper to find a 24/192 optical DAC then a DAC that allows that via USB (so I would think).  Best to get the audio outside of the case and away from the EMI inside the computer.
 

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