Is a computer a good source?!
Dec 9, 2010 at 7:23 PM Post #31 of 106

ramicio

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Nov 12, 2010
Posts
220
Likes
14
There is no EMI inside of a computer.  If there was there would be so many errors in processing data.  People need to stop spreading misinformation like that.  I think submerging a computer in oil is pretty awesome.  A transformer creates noise because it is an electromagnet.  Have you ever heard how loud a huge power transformer for stepping down mains are?
 
Dec 9, 2010 at 7:26 PM Post #32 of 106

Somnambulist

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Posts
1,639
Likes
39
1) Go on SilentPCReview, get help on the forums speccing out something to fit your needs
2) Keep all the music on either network or directly attached storage, which can be placed anywhere so if you're hyper critical about HDD noise you won't have to worry about it, plus it offers better options for backup like RAID while keeping the PC on your desk nice and small.
3) Make sure the computer is outputting music bit-perfectly (easily done on a Mac, requires more effort with a Windows machine), and through a decent output method.
4) That goes to the rest of your audio chain... then it's up to the rest of your components.
 
Dec 9, 2010 at 7:30 PM Post #33 of 106

TheKisho

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Aug 24, 2009
Posts
519
Likes
16
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielghofrani /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
[size=medium] also, I dont know what you mean by transformers making audible noise. I agree that they create a substantial hum out of your headphone (line out) jack but there is no Acoustic noise coming out from them, ( I actually never had a fanless power supply to listen to it in quiet though)[/size]

 
What he means is in the cheaper iron core transformers.  The layered plates of the core will vibrate making an audible noise [due to the adhesive keeping them together and a whole bunch of electromagnet physics].  [Solid iron core transformers don't have this problem].  You usually won't hear it over the fans or often noisy cheap capacitors.  Occasionally you can hear it more if you put the case on a surface it can resonate on like a hardwood floor.  The noise you hear via your headphone jack is a combination of the noise from the switched mode power supply (the switching the power on and off to regulate voltage will cause noise in electrical output), poor AC filtering in the power supply, poor DC output filtering, the noise from the CPU, other EMI from the motherboard, and if it's a laptop it's often because of grounding issues on most power supplies (<_< cheater plugs are nice >_>).
 
 
 
P.S. Get a good quality low noise [electrical] power supply.  If you can find one (probably not) get a linear computer power supply [I don't even know if they make one but it would be better for audio].
 
P.P.S.  SSD drives are a good way to eliminate the hard drive noise in the case.  Some traditional hard drives are quieter then others but if you go with a more expensive [in comparison to a traditional drive] SSD drive you can have completely silent drive.
 
Dec 9, 2010 at 7:34 PM Post #34 of 106

TheKisho

500+ Head-Fier
Joined
Aug 24, 2009
Posts
519
Likes
16
Quote:
There is no EMI inside of a computer.  If there was there would be so many errors in processing data.  People need to stop spreading misinformation like that.


You really need to take an electrical and physics course buddy.
 
There is errors all the time, that's why there is error correction built into everything in a computer you just don't notice it.  The computer is a big transmitter, it runs on radio waves! [Overly simplified but].  Why do you think there is so many FCC rules on EMI on any electrical device.
 
 
Wouldn't the magnetic lines of force that circle the wires in the computer near the motherboard and along every trace on the motherboard also not cause errors?  Is that not a localized form of EMI inside the case?  Without the error correction it would be amazing if the computer would even run.  The CPU is already facing quantum physics errors due to the ever smaller dies they are trying to create now.
 
Dec 9, 2010 at 10:58 PM Post #35 of 106

ramicio

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Nov 12, 2010
Posts
220
Likes
14
Don't tell me abot electronics buddy.  Everything that should be shielded is.  There is nothing inside of a computer to create radio interference.  Electronics have to pass other things in the FCC than emitting radio waves that will interfere with itself or other devices.  What fault tolerance is there in a desktop?  None.  Look at any desktop RAM, non-ECC!  You think low voltages are going to cause EMI that is going to interfere with a sound card?  What makes a computer produce interference inside its case and not an external DAC doing that to itself?  This is utter nonsense.  A computer doesn't run on radio waves.  Radio waves have an electromagnetic and electronic counterparts.  It's electromagnetic radiation...photons.  Just because a computer is operating at frequencies that are the same as what microwaves are doesn't mean they are radio waves.  The quantum errors have nothing to do with radio waves...it's electron leakage due to how small the die technology is.  45nm is what my processor tech. is and a silicon atom is about 1/4 nm across.  I fail to see how a computer can create EMI and destroy its data but a DAC is some magical device that defies physics.
 
Dec 9, 2010 at 11:11 PM Post #36 of 106

danielghofrani

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Oct 16, 2010
Posts
233
Likes
10


Quote:
Don't tell me abot electronics buddy.  Everything that should be shielded is.  There is nothing inside of a computer to create radio interference.  Electronics have to pass other things in the FCC than emitting radio waves that will interfere with itself or other devices.  What fault tolerance is there in a desktop?  None.  Look at any desktop RAM, non-ECC!  You think low voltages are going to cause EMI that is going to interfere with a sound card?  What makes a computer produce interference inside its case and not an external DAC doing that to itself?  This is utter nonsense.  A computer doesn't run on radio waves.  Radio waves have an electromagnetic and electronic counterparts.  It's electromagnetic radiation...photons.  Just because a computer is operating at frequencies that are the same as what microwaves are doesn't mean they are radio waves.  The quantum errors have nothing to do with radio waves...it's electron leakage due to how small the die technology is.  45nm is what my processor tech. is and a silicon atom is about 1/4 nm across.  I fail to see how a computer can create EMI and destroy its data but a DAC is some magical device that defies physics.


interesting! I can give more expert opinions after I finish 3rd year in school, but I will keep quiet for now!!
but one thing which I know is for sure and not a purist propaganda, is the noise I hear in the headphones when I click on a link, .... 
there is some random noise coming from the headphones jack. 
 
also my biggest problem is with computers is the actual acoustic noise coming from the fan and the hard drives. not only the electronic noise. 
there is usually no ambient noise in my room (right now I am sitting near the kitchen and the refrigerator noise is the same level as the laptop fan) when I am in my room the fan annoys me. that is why I want a noiseless computer for audio (if such a thing exists, you just mentioned that all transformers create audible noise which means there really isn't any option)
 
actually when the laptop is very cold and I just turn it on it is not THAT bad but it gets ridiculous very soon .
 
Dec 9, 2010 at 11:14 PM Post #37 of 106

danielghofrani

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Oct 16, 2010
Posts
233
Likes
10
By the Way! TheKisho!! you live in Kitchener?!
I live in Waterloo. I go to university of Waterloo for ECE!!
thanks a lot for your input on this thread. please guide me regarding a source. 
I can't settle this. TheKisho do you think that there is going to be EMI from the music even if I get the digital out and feed it to an external DAC?
 
Dec 9, 2010 at 11:18 PM Post #38 of 106

danielghofrani

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Oct 16, 2010
Posts
233
Likes
10


Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielghofrani /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
[size=medium] also, I dont know what you mean by transformers making audible noise. I agree that they create a substantial hum out of your headphone (line out) jack but there is no Acoustic noise coming out from them, ( I actually never had a fanless power supply to listen to it in quiet though)[/size]

 
What he means is in the cheaper iron core transformers.  The layered plates of the core will vibrate making an audible noise [due to the adhesive keeping them together and a whole bunch of electromagnet physics].  [Solid iron core transformers don't have this problem].  You usually won't hear it over the fans or often noisy cheap capacitors.  Occasionally you can hear it more if you put the case on a surface it can resonate on like a hardwood floor.  The noise you hear via your headphone jack is a combination of the noise from the switched mode power supply (the switching the power on and off to regulate voltage will cause noise in electrical output), poor AC filtering in the power supply, poor DC output filtering, the noise from the CPU, other EMI from the motherboard, and if it's a laptop it's often because of grounding issues on most power supplies (<_< cheater plugs are nice >_>).
 
 
 
P.S. Get a good quality low noise [electrical] power supply.  If you can find one (probably not) get a linear computer power supply [I don't even know if they make one but it would be better for audio].
 
P.P.S.  SSD drives are a good way to eliminate the hard drive noise in the case.  Some traditional hard drives are quieter then others but if you go with a more expensive [in comparison to a traditional drive] SSD drive you can have completely silent drive.



yes I would definitely go with an SSD. 
no matter how bizarre it would be, I am going to try to make a noiseless(at least acoustic noise) PC as soon as the funds and time become available . it is going to be a feat of engineering. I might need to pull out some unconventional dirty little tricks to make it work, but it is going to be fun!
 
Dec 9, 2010 at 11:34 PM Post #39 of 106

Nihility

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Apr 8, 2008
Posts
301
Likes
11
oh man kisho beat me to it!
 
 
do a mineral oil mod.
 
I planned to do this at some point for fun anyway (i build gaming computers, and tbh my gaming computer isnt the quietest thing to listen to music from considering it has 13 fans, if i crank everything up it sounds like a wind tunnel test P:
 
i wanted to do a mineral oil mod anyway, but had no real use for it.. now that i realize it'd be the perfect audio server.. its on!
 
 
edit: my brother has an oil cooled computer and its virtually silent. the normal processing noises and stuff that eminate from a computer are muffled by well.. gallons of oil.
not to mention.. no fans!
 
Dec 9, 2010 at 11:47 PM Post #40 of 106

danielghofrani

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Oct 16, 2010
Posts
233
Likes
10
 
Quote:
 
 tbh my gaming computer isnt the quietest thing to listen to music from considering it has 13 fans, if i crank everything up it sounds like a wind tunnel test P:
 
 

haha I know eh! I once got to repair a gamer's computer: when you turned it on it sounded like a Boeing trying to take off!!
 
 
 

Quote:
edit: my brother has an oil cooled computer and its virtually silent. the normal processing noises and stuff that eminate from a computer are muffled by well.. gallons of oil.
not to mention.. no fans!That is really cool! "virtually silent?!" 


please let me know more about that, your help is much appreciated. i might actually make an audiophile computer like that. thank!
 
Dec 10, 2010 at 12:36 AM Post #41 of 106

ramicio

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Nov 12, 2010
Posts
220
Likes
14
Maybe we should just consider quality PC components versus cheap stuff making the difference.  I have had computers have interference noise in the past.  A cheap power supply, cheap motherboard, and the Audigy was a fail of a card.  Any computer I had where I used onboard sound had problems with picking up noise.  Now I assemble my own computers.  Now I have a damn good power supply, MSI motherboard, and X-fi titanium.  The only time I will hear noise is if my cell phone is near the amp for my speakers or if I have Bit-matched playback disabled in Creative's control panel I will hear a hiss (probably the X-fi enhancements ruining noise floor) even with no sounds playing.  I have my headhones plugged into my speakers and if I turn it up all the way with nothing playing there is NO noise whatsoever.  People tend to buy a cheap PC to start with and then upgrade single things at a time (such as adding a sound card) and then tend to blame the whole platform that everyone uses as the source of the problem.  I also have four hard drives in the computer, and the only fans are for the PSU, CPU, and GPU.  The hard drives would be the loudest thing but I have heard people with CPU fans that sound like a jet.  If you've ever been in a server room you would know what I'm describing.  The whining fans, but these were 80mm.  I do plan on building a storage server to move my main storage elsewhere and use SSDs for my main drive.  The GPU fan I have is what came on the card and it is not surprisingly loud, even while using CUDA to decode.  The CPU fan is the standard one that comes with the i7 and it's not too bad.  If I do get anal about it I may just liquid cool it and have long coolant lines to move all that stuff elsewhere.  I also think my PSU being modular (cables plug into it so you don't have unused wires floating around) also helps a lot.  I could see how that could be a source of some interference on a very poorly designed PSU.  I don't even have the side of my computer case on and I have a wireless mouse nearby, still no noise.  If you think of another thing...my iPhone s noiseless and that's for sure a radio device.  It's easy to shield from RFI.
 
Dec 10, 2010 at 12:43 AM Post #42 of 106

estreeter

Headphoneus Supremus
Joined
Jun 10, 2009
Posts
8,336
Likes
477
Sensational stuff - this thread seems to be going about as well as the 30-page epic over at Computer Audiophile, with the exception that some of those guys are, believe it or not, even more paranoid about every single electron/photon/gamma ray that might be coming between their hard drive and their ears. I spent enough time drinking beer with electrical engineering students at university to know that its best just to smile and nod at whatever they say - several of those guys took 6 years to finish a 4-year degree and it frightens me that they might be running the power grid.  Now that's cause for paranoia !
 
Dec 10, 2010 at 12:58 AM Post #43 of 106

ramicio

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Nov 12, 2010
Posts
220
Likes
14
Shapes of PCB traces are also designed to reject radio outside signals as much as possible.  And remember, the magnetic field around a wire transfers to other wires parallel to them.  A slight angle will drop the crosstalk significantly.  CAT5 cable wires are all parallel, yet they are all designed to shield each other (in pairs) by how many twists per length they are twisted.  It is quite a precise amount, too.  It's why I always shudder when I see people who don't know what they're doing attempt to make their own patch cables and they strip off an inch of wire and straighten that inch and crimp it without trimming it back or they just untwist way too much.
 
Dec 10, 2010 at 2:50 AM Post #44 of 106

Meelis

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Nov 22, 2010
Posts
232
Likes
42
For noiseless pc use.
 
Mini-ITX mobo with only heatsink. Also usually Mini-ITX PSU's are fanless.
 
There is Intel® Desktop Board D510MO with atom cpu integrated.
http://www.intel.com/products/desktop/motherboards/D510MO/D510MO-overview.htm
 
And there is newer model Intel® Desktop Board DH57JG
http://www.intel.com/products/desktop/motherboards/DH57JG/DH57JG-overview.htm
But i'm not shure if any of this cpu's can run only with heatsink. For only audio playback u can underclock cpu (if it gets hot, but it should not get hot).
And Xeon server boards use only heatsink sometimes for some cpu's and they work under constand non-stop load.
Xeon L3406 (30W)
i3-530 (73W)
i5-650 (73W)
 
Then there are Intel Atom netbooks:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=API0QnJ_QiA
 
I have one of the Nexus case fan (PWM SERIES) with Ultra soft fan mounts.
It's very very silent (almost noiseless). http://www.nexustek.nl/NXS-silentcasefans.htm
 
Dec 10, 2010 at 9:47 AM Post #45 of 106

danielghofrani

100+ Head-Fier
Joined
Oct 16, 2010
Posts
233
Likes
10


Quote:
Shapes of PCB traces are also designed to reject radio outside signals as much as possible.  And remember, the magnetic field around a wire transfers to other wires parallel to them.  A slight angle will drop the crosstalk significantly.  CAT5 cable wires are all parallel, yet they are all designed to shield each other (in pairs) by how many twists per length they are twisted.  It is quite a precise amount, too.  It's why I always shudder when I see people who don't know what they're doing attempt to make their own patch cables and they strip off an inch of wire and straighten that inch and crimp it without trimming it back or they just untwist way too much.



makes logical and technical sense, thanks. 
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top