[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Target1 I can understand why you might not like the Ipod photo, but he archos? They aren't even substitutable goods really. The archos is more expensive, and the ipod is already at the absolute cieling of the market for digital music. Second, the target audience isn't guys who like new gadgets, or audiophiles, it kids between ages 10 and 25. I'm in there, and although I cant speak for everyone, I don't want a PDA right now, I don't want to watch movies in a cafe, and I don't want a music player thats as big as the archos. On the other hand for me as I'm studying abroad, I do want music with me all the time, and having pictures of friends and family to take a look at when I get nostagic is quite attractive. Give the price range, feature list, and target audience the ipod photo and archos av 400/500 are not substitutes.

I dont know where you are getting the idea that any archos mp3 player is more expensive than an offering from apple... even the av420 is a little bit cheaper than the 20GB ipod photo.

And if you just want music why get an ipod photo? If you just want a colour screen and dont care about anything else, there is the gmini 400. You can just pretend it doesnt have all those extra features if it bothers you so much.

For what it is worth... if you just want music, the gmini XS200 is the worlds smallest 20GB mp3 player... about the size of an ipod mini.

If you want to be a 'kid between ages 10 and 25' as you put it, go right ahead... I'll be the 'audiophile who like new gadgets'.

 

[stevebeyer@mac.c]

I am not actually sold on the idea yet but I think the ability to go anyware and hook up to a TV and do the slideshow thing may have some potential. Imagine the possiblities for business people able to travel with a presenation in his form factor. Does anyone know if you can use it for direct storage from digital cameras? This could be a useful feature if it is easy to use. For now I think I am happy with my 4th gen ipod and mini.

 

[lextek]

Belkin make a device to link your camera to the iPod for downloading. They also make a media card reader.

 

[Target1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox I dont know where you are getting the idea that any archos mp3 player is more expensive than an offering from apple... even the av420 is a little bit cheaper than the 20GB ipod photo. And if you just want music why get an ipod photo? If you just want a colour screen and dont care about anything else, there is the gmini 400. You can just pretend it doesnt have all those extra features if it bothers you so much. For what it is worth... if you just want music, the gmini XS200 is the worlds smallest 20GB mp3 player... about the size of an ipod mini. If you want to be a 'kid between ages 10 and 25' as you put it, go right ahead... I'll be the 'audiophile who like new gadgets'.

The ipod photo has a minimum size of 40 gigs, not 20 which is double the AV420 for 10 pounds more. On the manufacturers website I found 350 GBP for the 420, and 360 GBP for the photo. Nowhere on the archos sight could I find proper dimensions for the 420, which leads me to believe that it isn't one of the selling points. Further the battery life is about 20% less than that of the photo which is somewhat of a big deal with this type of product. I would have to say that although the Archos is impressive for what it offers, it will never seriously challenge the ipod. The Archos products don't really have a niche. Its a bit of a jack of all trades master of none it seems. On the other hand Apple has designed the Ipod to be the very best at the few things it does.

Mark

PS I got my photo for just 250 pounds from the US with student discount.

PPS I didn't really even get into the ease of use. This isnn't much of a problem for most of the people here, but the integratoin of the ipods total system far outstrips most other products. A fact that seems to plague companies like iriver. Not sure about how archos fits in here.

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Target1 The ipod photo has a minimum size of 40 gigs, not 20 which is double the AV420 for 10 pounds more. On the manufacturers website I found 350 GBP for the 420, and 360 GBP for the photo. Nowhere on the archos sight could I find proper dimensions for the 420, which leads me to believe that it isn't one of the selling points. Further the battery life is about 20% less than that of the photo which is somewhat of a big deal with this type of product. I would have to say that although the Archos is impressive for what it offers, it will never seriously challenge the ipod. The Archos products don't really have a niche. Its a bit of a jack of all trades master of none it seems. On the other hand Apple has designed the Ipod to be the very best at the few things it does.

I was comparing the two 20GB models to be fair, but there is a av480 as well if you want to play the harddrive space game [although it is .2" thinker than the av420]. I would say that 350GBP is pretty close to 360GBP in price. The american site that I looked at had the 20gb ipod photo as being more expensive than the archos by about the same margin.

Archos av420 - 4.9" x 3.1" x 0.8" [with a 3.5" LCD]
Ipod Photo 20gb - 4.1" x 2.4" x 0.75" [with a 2" LCD]

I think that it is fairly apparent that the size difference is due to the larger screen size and increased functionality of the av420. Its like comparing a 20" Television to a 35" Television. My av320 is a brick... I love it, but it is huge. I dont think the same can be said for the av420 all things considered.

Battery life is 20% less? The av420 has 16 hours for music or 4 ½ hours for video. The ipod photo has 15 hours for music or 5 hours for 'slideshows with music'.

How exactly is the Archos a jack of all trades and master of none? Please point out other companies that are making multimedia devices with a similar feature set that are implemented better.

And the ipod photo is the best at what it does? Give me a break. I guess all the sound quality issues that people are having are a good example of this mastery? I would not say that displaying photos is the best use of a colour screen... and how exactly does it display photos better than the Archos players anyways? You need to buy a third party accessory to allow the ipod photo to download from a memory card directly. The av420 has a built in CF reader [with an optional 4 in 1 adapter for other formats].

I guess the student discount would be a consideration for some... but I'm not a student.

As for ease of use... the Archos GUI is pretty simple. Its all icon based and is laid out in a similar way to Windows. I know that Mac's are very easy to use, but more people have PC's so there is next to no learning curve. Ipod has iTunes which people seem to like. Personally I like the simplicity of the Archos system. Plug it in and it autorecognized and you can just drag and drop in Windows Explorer.

I agree with you though... the archos will never seriously challenge the ipod's market... but then they have a slightly different target customer I think.

 

[Target1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox I was comparing the two 20GB models to be fair, but there is a av480 as well if you want to play the harddrive space game [although it is .2" thinker than the av420]. I would say that 350GBP is pretty close to 360GBP in price. The american site that I looked at had the 20gb ipod photo as being more expensive than the archos by about the same margin. Archos av420 - 4.9" x 3.1" x 0.8" [with a 3.5" LCD] Ipod Photo 20gb - 4.1" x 2.4" x 0.75" [with a 2" LCD] I think that it is fairly apparent that the size difference is due to the larger screen size and increased functionality of the av420. Its like comparing a 20" Television to a 35" Television. My av320 is a brick... I love it, but it is huge. I dont think the same can be said for the av420 all things considered. Battery life is 20% less? The av420 has 16 hours for music or 4 ½ hours for video. The ipod photo has 15 hours for music or 5 hours for 'slideshows with music'. How exactly is the Archos a jack of all trades and master of none? Please point out other companies that are making multimedia devices with a similar feature set that are implemented better. And the ipod photo is the best at what it does? Give me a break. I guess all the sound quality issues that people are having are a good example of this mastery? I would not say that displaying photos is the best use of a colour screen... and how exactly does it display photos better than the Archos players anyways? You need to buy a third party accessory to allow the ipod photo to download from a memory card directly. The av420 has a built in CF reader [with an optional 4 in 1 adapter for other formats]. I guess the student discount would be a consideration for some... but I'm not a student. As for ease of use... the Archos GUI is pretty simple. Its all icon based and is laid out in a similar way to Windows. I know that Mac's are very easy to use, but more people have PC's so there is next to no learning curve. Ipod has iTunes which people seem to like. Personally I like the simplicity of the Archos system. Plug it in and it autorecognized and you can just drag and drop in Windows Explorer. I agree with you though... the archos will never seriously challenge the ipod's market... but then they have a slightly different target customer I think.

The 20 gig ipod photo does not exist. The photo range starts at 40 gigs. I selected this model because the prices were near identicle, and the original thread is on the ipod photo. Also the manufacturers site for the AV420 http://www.archos.com/products/prw_500664_specs.html lists the battery life at 12 hours for music play back. Further, the numbers you posted for size comparison although looking quite similar are not. Depth is about the same, but length and width are each 20% bigger on the av420. This is a significant margin in this industry. I think my original point was that most people who are seriously looking at an ipod would not consider the archos. It is a different product. Its bigger, and has less space for the same money. Overall they are not substitute goods. One is a small mp3 player with a secondary optoin now of viewing pictures. The other is a multi media center. As to the audio defects, although very annoying apple will gladly replace brand new, any model that even the most critical audiophile has a problem with. There support is amazing. They aren't fickle about what they consider a "problem." Lastly I would have to completely respectfully disagree with the TV analogy. One of the major selling points of both units is size. With tv's bigger is better. With this sort of electronic equipment smaller is better. I understand that it is in part due to the screen, but the bulk AV420's comes mainly from its ability to read so many different formats. There is a lot more hardware in the archos than in the ipod. They could easily put a 3.5 inch screen on the ipod without increasing the size, but somehting else would have to go (hard drive size, price, etc). In additoin there is no way I am going to enjoy watching a movie on either a 2 inch, or a 3.5 inch screen. I understand where you are coming from, but I have to say for anyone looking for an mp3 player the archos probably won't make their product list. On the other hand ipod will hit the top of it.

Mark

PS Until you suggested the Archos I had never heard of it. On the other hand I would say that at least 25% (and perhaps much more than this) of people with profiles at hifi have some version of an ipod.

 

[chadbang]

Actually, the ability of display photos was at the top of my wish-list in some damn Head-fi poll, way back when. I'm glad to see it. I figure a third party (or maybe Apple) clip-on camera is just around the block. That'll be nice -- although technology these days could have included a built-in camera on the iPod. I wonder if the new iPod software will call up images of the artist playing (album cover, whatever) like it does in itunes? I'm with the other poster who said that PDA and movie functions (although I'm sure this is right around the block) aren't really as important to me. But I like being able to carry photos. I think viewing photos is among the top three functions of my home computer.

 

[lextek]

Yes the album cover is displayed when the songs are played.

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Target1 The 20 gig ipod photo does not exist. The photo range starts at 40 gigs.

My mistake. Quote:

Originally Posted by Target1 I selected this model because the prices were near identicle, and the original thread is on the ipod photo. Also the manufacturers site for the AV420 http://www.archos.com/products/prw_500664_specs.html lists the battery life at 12 hours for music play back.

The comparison that I was looking at had both the av420 and the av480 on the chart... turns out that the av480 has a 16 hr life and the av420 has a 12 hr life. Quote:

Originally Posted by Target1 Further, the numbers you posted for size comparison although looking quite similar are not. Depth is about the same, but length and width are each 20% bigger on the av420. This is a significant margin in this industry. I think my original point was that most people who are seriously looking at an ipod would not consider the archos. It is a different product. Its bigger, and has less space for the same money. Overall they are not substitute goods. One is a small mp3 player with a secondary optoin now of viewing pictures. The other is a multi media center.

Like I said, the extra 20% in width and hight is due to the huge difference in screen size. I agree with what you are saying though. The ipod photo is a mp3 player that displays photos. This is why it does not impress me. They have taken 2 yr old features and put them in a the same boring white shell that the ipod was in. Quote:

Originally Posted by Target1 As to the audio defects, although very annoying apple will gladly replace brand new, any model that even the most critical audiophile has a problem with. There support is amazing. They aren't fickle about what they consider a "problem." Lastly I would have to completely respectfully disagree with the TV analogy. One of the major selling points of both units is size. With tv's bigger is better. With this sort of electronic equipment smaller is better. I understand that it is in part due to the screen, but the bulk AV420's comes mainly from its ability to read so many different formats. There is a lot more hardware in the archos than in the ipod. They could easily put a 3.5 inch screen on the ipod without increasing the size, but somehting else would have to go (hard drive size, price, etc). In additoin there is no way I am going to enjoy watching a movie on either a 2 inch, or a 3.5 inch screen.

The Archos devices are not bigger because they have more hardware for decoding different formats... they have a chip that does the divx decoding. They are bigger because of the screen and the larger battery necissary to power it. If you put that size screen on an ipod it would have a battery life of 2 seconds.

As for watching movies... no, your not going to do that often. But it is nice for music videos funny sketch's and the occasional movie. The point is not really to watch movies on the device though... its that you can output it to a TV. The recording features are also nice.

I have already agreed with you that the av420 is not for someone who just wants an mp3 player. It is for someone that wants a portable multimedia player.

Like I said, if I was on the market for a portable that I would use strictly for music, I would get the Gmini XS200.

I look at the hi-fi hobby as a way to get interesting things that allow me to appreciate music. This is the reason I have my AKG headphones and didnt just buy Sony V700's like everyone else I see on the subway.

To me, buying an ipod when I know there are more innovative products out there is like buying a Bose Speaker system from Best Buy.