Introducing the Audeze MM-500!
Dec 18, 2022 at 7:15 PM Post #391 of 472
Highly, emphatically disagree.

MM-500 may have more speed and better tonality, but HD800 is more resolving of microdetail, more textured, more dynamic, with not nearly as rubbery of a timbre.

HD600 is better tuned, more comfortable, more dynamic, and more textured than MM-500. Again, the only thing MM-500 has over it is speed and bass extension.

What amps and sources are you using with the Audeze headphones to come to those conclusions?

The Audeze headphones need good suitable amplification to achieve the sound qualities they are capable of. Run them with lesser amplification and lesser source and you can come to the conclusion that they are lacking in microdetail, texture, dynamics. Run them with quality suitable amplification and source and the Audeze headphones absolutely do texture and dynamics in spades.
 
Dec 18, 2022 at 7:47 PM Post #392 of 472
The Audeze headphones need good suitable amplification to achieve the sound qualities they are capable of.
My experience is consistent with this. Despite being easy to drive, I find that the MM-500 responds well to different amplifiers. Of course raw, clean power that drives gobs of resolution is my sound, and I found the MM-500 translated that very well.
On "lesser" amps, such as the headphone out of the Benchmark DAC3 HGC, which I find to be competent but not amazing, I just didn't find the MM-500 all that compelling.

I do think we are all looking for different things, and our systems give us different sounds, so it doesn't surprise me that we have a variety of experiences here. But I will say in my experience, I didn't find the HD800S to be superior in terms of microdetail, texture, etc. It just presented those things differently. And I preferred the more direct presentation of the MM-500. But I think that also has to do with the fact I tend to undervalue what the HD800S brings to the table, because I own the Qualia 010, which does what the HD800S does, but in my experience, better.
 
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Dec 19, 2022 at 12:12 PM Post #393 of 472
What amps and sources are you using with the Audeze headphones to come to those conclusions?

The Audeze headphones need good suitable amplification to achieve the sound qualities they are capable of. Run them with lesser amplification and lesser source and you can come to the conclusion that they are lacking in microdetail, texture, dynamics. Run them with quality suitable amplification and source and the Audeze headphones absolutely do texture and dynamics in spades.
All impressions were made on a Bryston BHA-1 and Dangerous Music Source.

Not a fan of the goalpost shift of "sufficient amplification" generally, as even in cases where there have been significant differences between sources/amps used, it's not like it made the headphone crazily better or worse, or changed my assessment of it drastically.

Personally, unit variation is a more compelling thing to look for as an explanation for differing opinions, especially when we have evidence of different units measuring differently on compatible rigs (Resolve and Crin's 43AGs, for example).
 
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Dec 27, 2022 at 3:02 PM Post #394 of 472
I got a pair of these, I am the intended audience for this product (mastering engineer). Also have LCD5, which doesn't pair great with any portable source I have (even had a Hugo 2 for a time). They sound best at home though a proper amp.

The MM500 really feels right for pro audio. A little characterless out of the box, but with a tiny bit of eq they just sound right for getting work done. Also the pads seal better and more consistently than any LCD outside of the LCD1 in my experience. Also they really changed after break in, just way more open and resolving. To me they nailed this one.
 
Dec 27, 2022 at 3:17 PM Post #395 of 472
I got a pair of these, I am the intended audience for this product (mastering engineer). Also have LCD5, which doesn't pair great with any portable source I have (even had a Hugo 2 for a time). They sound best at home though a proper amp.

Curious what you mean by a “proper amp” currently loving mine off of Hugo 2 but would love to get even more out of them
 
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Dec 27, 2022 at 4:11 PM Post #396 of 472
Curious what you mean by a “proper amp” currently loving mine off of Hugo 2 but would love to get even more out of them
Cutting in, but I would say something like an A90 at minimum.
 
Dec 27, 2022 at 4:15 PM Post #397 of 472
Cutting in, but I would say something like an A90 at minimum.

You mean… power-wise right? Because the Hugo 2 is widely praised and I’m sure would be seen as the more musical amp. Sorry to derail the thread
 
Dec 27, 2022 at 5:01 PM Post #398 of 472
You mean… power-wise right? Because the Hugo 2 is widely praised and I’m sure would be seen as the more musical amp. Sorry to derail the thread
Yes, power wise. For a minimum price-to-performance ratio, the A90 is where I would start. There may be other ~$500 amps that sound more musical, but won't bring out the technical capacities that the LCD-5 can muster.
 
Dec 28, 2022 at 11:19 AM Post #400 of 472
I would recommend a used A90 first, but I'm sure they are very similar in sound.
 
Dec 28, 2022 at 11:02 PM Post #402 of 472
I got the chance to audition the MM-500 versus my LCD-3 at my local headphone shop for an hour and a half, using the single-ended out of a Hifiman EF400.

The first thing I noticed was that the MM-500 is very fast with an intimate but open sound. Everything sounds like it is happening in or right against your head with images being very large. Though the separation is good, it is offset tremendously by the fact that the images are packed so closely together; nothing really has the space to breathe. The second thing I noticed was that it can be a bit shouty with vocals. Some of this has to do with the mixing/mastering of the music while the rest of it has to do with a peak somewhere in the lower treble and upper mids. For context, I find the ZMF Eikon to have a very similar peak and fatiguing nature, but I don't find the HD800S or Focal Clear to be fatiguing; chock that up to ear shape and hearing loss I guess. I am not a mixing/mastering engineer, just a music enjoyer with an over-eager headphone budget, but I do think that this would be a very strong choice for a studio environment given its strengths.

In direct comparison, my LCD-3 sounded overly smooth, dark and warm (basically like an LCD-3 should sound) it's not that the LCD-3 lacks details, rather it is a much more "lay back and relax" sound signature that also includes details. Between the two, the LCD-3 has a worse timbre but a much richer midrange; it's kind of a hard truth on one hand and a seductive lie on the other. The bass on the LCD-3 is more prominent and forward but the MM-500 feels tighter and quicker down low. I think that if you already love the LCD-3 and old house sound of Audeze (like I do) you should not sell your old Audezes to fund an MM-500 or LCD-5. This new direction is focused on resolution as opposed to musicality. That's not to say that the MM-500 is not musical, it just isn't willing to lie and butter up your music for increased enjoyment.
The LCD-3 also staged further away than the MM-500 but seemed to have slightly smaller image size. Coupled with the dense black background of LCD-3, it made everything stand out more in the soundstage when compared to the MM-500. I think some of this has to do with the larger double-sided magnets of the LCD-3 versus the smaller single-sided magnets of the MM-500. I suspect that this difference coupled with the more aggressively angled earpads made up the majority of the differences between the two in presentation.

As I was listening to the MM-500 I was trying to consider which of the headphones I've owned that it most compares to; I've settled on the ZMF Eikon and Mr Speakers Ether Flow 1.1 (EF1.1) as the best comparisons.

The MM-500 sounds to me like what I wanted the EF1.1 to sound like: fast, neutral, accurate, and lively. I often found that though I loved the neutral and accurate tuning of the EF1.1 it was over-dampened to the point of sounding clinical; it was a headphone that to me came across as stern and exacting with a scientific delivery of everything that I listened to. Whereas the EF1.1 gave a laboratory-perfect representation of music, the MM-500 has more fun and retains a neutral and accurate presentation.
The thing the Eikons and MM-500 share (IMO) is timbre and their ability to give me ear fatigue startlingly quickly. The Eikon is much slower and has more body to its sound which helps its naturalness tremendously (the Eikon is the only headphone that to me sounds like an actual voice as opposed to the recording of a voice). The Eikon's naturalness is not matched by the MM-500 but its timbre is. I found that the MM-500 consistently sounded right with vocals and natural instruments in a way that compared favourably to the Eikon and exceeded the LCD-3 and Focal Clear. Where I find the Eikon to be too slow and a bit flattering overall, I find the MM-500 to be much faster and timbre correct but only as natural sounding as a planar can get (not very). For me, I will trade the unnatural speed of a planar to the more natural slowness of the Eikon in a heartbeat.

Would I buy the MM-500? Yes, I like the presentation and the neutral sound signature tremendously. It does everything well in its limited soundstage and sacrifices (IMO) very littles to do it. Would I trade my ZMF Eikon, Focal Clear OG or LCD-3 for it? No, all of those headphones equal it and beat it in one place or another or just flat out do things differently enough that they are all different and worth having (to me).

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Feb 3, 2023 at 2:47 PM Post #403 of 472
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Feb 3, 2023 at 4:20 PM Post #404 of 472
anyone here who has heard or owns the HD800S, does the Audeze MM-500 have more or less detail and which of the 2 do you like better if you can only own one?
I own both and enjoy each depending on type of music I am hankering for each evening. I am old school and like to listen to full albums rather than jumping around. They are just different not better or worse in my opinion regarding the detail. The HD800s having a wider soundstage has clear details coming from the extreme edges and favors classical orchestra, big band music, and concert recordings I like the MM500 for pop, intimate jazz and vocal recordings where you want to hear environmental cues or on a dense complex mix where the engineer is doing interesting layering. If I had to chose one it would be the MM500 as I just find that I pick it out more often for the type of music I prefer but I am not selling the HD800s anytime soon. I am currently running them on a LTA MZ3 amp with tubes selected for treble and midrange clarity and the combo is the end game for me. Mostly streaming Tidal but regular LP spinning as well and very happy. This combo is extremely resolving with the bonus of super clean deep textured bass. Good luck with your headphone journey.
 
Mar 22, 2023 at 10:47 PM Post #405 of 472
For the most part I agree with your statement. That said the MM-500 out resolves the 800s and destroys it for bass response, timbre and tonality.

The MM sounds closer to the 600 series for midrange and if Sennheiser made a planar the MM is probably how it would sound.

But again the MM absolutely destroys any of the 600 series in all categories and rightfully so for its price point.
Severely disagree - MM-500 is not competition to the 800 imo. MM-500 lacks soundstage, bass physicality/impact and treble extension. They're ok, but without EQ they're not competitive with HD800 in my book in much of any area I can think of. Their tuning is ok, but left a lot to be desired, even compared to the also not flawless HD800. The build is a lot more solid feeling though, and probably easier to EQ.
 
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