Introducing the Audeze MM-500!

[chargedcapacitor]

I find it a bit funny that the LCD4 was supposed to be perfectly accurate and now the LCD5 is also supposed to be perfectly accurate but has a completely different tuning. Both cannot be “what the artist intended” at the same time

Or maybe the mm500 is in between lcd4 and lcd5 in tuning and true to source? If Manny with 11 Grammys cannot tune a headphone well then nobody can!

I’ve owned 4 Audezes and I’m a big supporter of the company but they need to streamline the range and have a clear philosophy about sound signatures.

What a painful over simplification of headphone manufacturing.

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Just make a headphone with amazing resolution, clarity, and timbre. I will buy it!

[Laughs in CRBN]

 

[XERO1]

 

[rawk0r]

I really love the understated design of these, and am super excited to see the impressions some people have of these. Might give up on wanting a set of HD800S and just go straight for these instead!

 

[b0lt 0ns]

I find it a bit funny that the LCD4 was supposed to be perfectly accurate and now the LCD5 is also supposed to be perfectly accurate but has a completely different tuning. Both cannot be “what the artist intended” at the same time

I mean unless you're using the same headphones the artist used to make the music can it ever be "what the artist intended" or is it just "some version of what the artist intended dependent on what brand of headphone you're listening with".

 

[Netforce]

Thanks! Great write up. Some questions:

When you say the bass is more like the LCD-5 then the LCD-X, does it mean it’s less bassy than the LCD-X? And how does the sub-bass stack up?

The LCD-X has a reputation for being a bit dark, does the MM-500 continue this trend or is it a bit brighter due to the perceived added clarity?

Would say the miceblue summed it up well, LCD-X had more punch and but the MM 500 still extended deeper.

Definitely would not call the MM 500 dark so possibly the latter!

 

[rthomas]

What a painful over simplification of headphone manufacturing.

My post was a dig at the marketing department not the manufacturing or technical department. Marketing loves to boast that every new headphone is the best ever!! The lcd4 sounds perfect until the lcd5 comes along

Music does not have infinite amounts of detail. My HD600 is 95% as detailed as my Stax SR009S . These huge differences are hyperbole to sell you a constant stream of expensive products.

 

[LoryWiv]

Speaking candidly, we are still very highly invested in our legacy products. It wasn't that long ago that we released the LCD-R (limited sure, but still noteworthy). The LCD-R was like a classic LCD reference taken to the next level. Audeze is branching out and expanding, not making their most venerable lines obsolete.

This is not a replacement. This is a new professional focused line. We will still have our enthusiast headphones, and products completely unrelated to the Manny line.

You can be certain that just because we release a new product doesn't mean everything is going in that specific direction.

Very helpful response, thank you @Mad Lust Envy. One additional evolution w/newer Audeze releases is the low impedance of the new designs. As an OTL owner, I would love to try MM but at 18 ohms hard to imagine it would play nice with my amp. Does the future Audeze roadmap (hopefully) include some lighter weight planars like MM that have higher impedances like the LCD 2, LCD3 & LCD4?

 

[Mark Up]

I am disappointed. Manny mixes a lot of bass heavy music. The issue with the LCD series is while sub bass extends beyond 20 hz, it's down at least a few db and is flat up to the midrange. Meaning, the typical Harman response has 5-10 db or more below 120 hz vs. at 200-800 hz. Even when those other cans may roll off at 30 or even 40 hz, there really seems to be more sub bass vs. an LCD. While this is considered generally "flat" below 1 khz & down to 20 hz (with LCD graphs showing small roll offs below 40 hz) it is because comparatively there is as much or more from the high bass to low mids to the mids than what's below 40 hz, they consistently sound rolled off. Even the LCD-4 so beloved with its so-called "slam", while having "speed" and "detail" there when an 808 sub bass drop hits at 25-30 hz you just don't hear it, or barely do. Try that on 90% of decent dynamics costing a fraction of that, and you hear more of that.

Why does this matter? I'll mix and master a lot of music with sub bass content that matters there. I'd recently upgraded my sub to a B&W that is a beast down to 20hz, and it is amazing what I'll hear in mixes with a lot of sub bass. I get that in sub bass heavy cans (a Lyx-Pro, Senn. Momentum 3, or HD820, etc.) and it will be seriously lacking in any LCD model. Their Mobius will do more until about 30 hz where it rolls off, but they lack the details or balance found in the higher end you will get with the LCD. Being open backed isn't an excuse. The various models of the Diana planar have some of the best sub bass ever and they are open back. They're sold at a similar if not lower price than the LCD-4, and far less than the LCD-5. Audeze LCD series, consistently lacking low subs, instead chose to release new models with even less. Those who think there is adequate sub bass aren't listening to music with enough below 40 hz.

 

[mikecheck95]

I am disappointed. Manny mixes a lot of bass heavy music. The issue with the LCD series is while sub bass extends beyond 20 hz, it's down at least a few db and is flat up to the midrange. Meaning, the typical Harman response has 5-10 db or more below 120 hz vs. at 200-800 hz. Even when those other cans may roll off at 30 or even 40 hz, there really seems to be more sub bass vs. an LCD. While this is considered generally "flat" below 1 khz & down to 20 hz (with LCD graphs showing small roll offs below 40 hz) it's because comparatively, there is as much or more from the high bass to low mids to the mids than what's below 40 hz, they consistently sound rolled off. Even the LCD-4 so beloved with its so-called "slam", while having "speed" and "detail" there, when an 808 sub bass drop hits at 25-30 hz, you just don't hear it, or barely do. Try that on 90% of decent dynamics at a fraction of the cost, and you hear more of that.

Why does this matter? I mix and master a lot of music with sub bass content that matters there. I'd recently upgraded my sub to a B&W that is a beast down to 20hz, and it's amazing what I'll hear in mixes with a lot of sub bass. I get that in sub bass heavy cans (the Lyx-Pro, Senn. Momentum 3, or HD820, etc.) and it will be seriously lacking in any LCD model. Their Mobius will do more until about 30 hz where it rolls off, but those lack the details or balance found in the higher end you will get with the LCD. Being open back is no excuse. The various versions of the Diana planar have some of the best sub bass ever, and they are open back. They clock in at a similar if not lower price than the LCD-4, and far less than the LCD-5. Audeze LCD series, consistently lacking low subs, instead chose to release new models with even less. Those who think there is adequate sub bass aren't listening to music with enough below 40 hz.

Agreed. The LCD reference series lacks in bass impact. The origins (2,3,4) series delivers more but it’s still only comparable to a cheaper set of dynamic driver cans. They do offer greater detail in the treble (which is probably why people are willing to live with the wonky tunings) but the bass isn’t where it’s at with the origins line, or a similarly priced dynamic.

I was hoping these would have more bass impact than the LCD-X 2021 however, the improved neutrality in the upper mids, drastically improved comfort and new form factor will be a big sell for most people.

 

[chargedcapacitor]

I am disappointed. Manny mixes a lot of bass heavy music. The issue with the LCD series is while sub bass extends beyond 20 hz, it's down at least a few db and is flat up to the midrange. Meaning, the typical Harman response has 5-10 db or more below 120 hz vs. at 200-800 hz. Even when those other cans may roll off at 30 or even 40 hz, there really seems to be more sub bass vs. an LCD. While this is considered generally "flat" below 1 khz & down to 20 hz (with LCD graphs showing small roll offs below 40 hz) it is because comparatively there is as much or more from the high bass to low mids to the mids than what's below 40 hz, they consistently sound rolled off. Even the LCD-4 so beloved with its so-called "slam", while having "speed" and "detail" there when an 808 sub bass drop hits at 25-30 hz you just don't hear it, or barely do. Try that on 90% of decent dynamics at a fraction of the cost, and you hear more of that.

Why does this matter? I mix and master a lot of music with sub bass content that matters there. I'd recently upgraded my sub to a B&W that is a beast down to 20hz, and it's amazing what I'll hear in mixes with a lot of sub bass. I get that in sub bass heavy cans (the Lyx-Pro, Senn. Momentum 3, or HD820, etc.) and it will be seriously lacking in any LCD model. Their Mobius will do more until about 30 hz where it rolls off, but those lack the details or balance found in the higher end you will get with the LCD. Being open back is no excuse. The various versions of the Diana planar have some of the best sub bass ever, and they are open back. They clock in at a similar if not lower price than the LCD-4, and far less than the LCD-5. Audeze LCD series, consistently lacking low subs, instead chose to release new models with even less. Those who think there is adequate sub bass aren't listening to music with enough below 40 hz.

You can't get elevated bass on a planar headphone without messing up the technical performance. If you need to hear+5db more sub bass, then use EQ.

 

[ThanatosVI]

I am disappointed. Manny mixes a lot of bass heavy music. The issue with the LCD series is while sub bass extends beyond 20 hz, it's down at least a few db and is flat up to the midrange. Meaning, the typical Harman response has 5-10 db or more below 120 hz vs. at 200-800 hz. Even when those other cans may roll off at 30 or even 40 hz, there really seems to be more sub bass vs. an LCD. While this is considered generally "flat" below 1 khz & down to 20 hz (with LCD graphs showing small roll offs below 40 hz) it is because comparatively there is as much or more from the high bass to low mids to the mids than what's below 40 hz, they consistently sound rolled off. Even the LCD-4 so beloved with its so-called "slam", while having "speed" and "detail" there when an 808 sub bass drop hits at 25-30 hz you just don't hear it, or barely do. Try that on 90% of decent dynamics costing a fraction of that, and you hear more of that.

Why does this matter? I'll mix and master a lot of music with sub bass content that matters there. I'd recently upgraded my sub to a B&W that is a beast down to 20hz, and it is amazing what I'll hear in mixes with a lot of sub bass. I get that in sub bass heavy cans (a Lyx-Pro, Senn. Momentum 3, or HD820, etc.) and it will be seriously lacking in any LCD model. Their Mobius will do more until about 30 hz where it rolls off, but they lack the details or balance found in the higher end you will get with the LCD. Being open backed isn't an excuse. The various models of the Diana planar have some of the best sub bass ever and they are open back. They're sold at a similar if not lower price than the LCD-4, and far less than the LCD-5. Audeze LCD series, consistently lacking low subs, instead chose to release new models with even less. Those who think there is adequate sub bass aren't listening to music with enough below 40 hz.

As a fellow Basshead, I agree, flagship headphones don't have enough Bass quantity.

Luckily this can be fixed with EQ. A LCD with a bass shelf sounds amazing.

Much better than a cheaper headphone with more Bass quantity. Since there is nothing you can do to improve the quality of it.

 

[mikecheck95]

You can't get elevated bass on a planar headphone without messing up the technical performance. If you need to hear+5db more sub bass, then use EQ.

I feel like he isn’t talking about the level precisely (although he does mention harman) I feel he means bass technicalities which were once the strong suit of the LCD line especially compared with other planars. As someone who has owned the hifiman sundara and lcd-2, lcd-x and listened to other hifimans in store I really think the newer Audezes reference tunings are more similar to the dryer presentation of the hifiman than the audeze origins series.

They also measure differently. Lcd-2,3,4 still have completely flat bass response as far as I know whereas the LCD-X has a 3-5db drop-off.

 

[Mark Up]

You can't get elevated bass on a planar headphone without messing up the technical performance. If you need to hear+5db more sub bass, then use EQ.

You'd completely missed what I said up there. Open-backed is no excuse. The Abyss Diana V2 is $4000 USD (less than an LCD-5). It weighs the same or less, it is open backed, and having demoed their Diana series (a few models) and their flagship as well (also open backed), I heard better sub bass than I've heard on 90% of close back headphones. While EQ can mitigate some of this it's not always accessible or ideal if you are using headphones in multiple places. For example, if I go to another studio I'll want to use my own headphones to hear mixes, for reference. If I require EQ to make them viable, and they don't have it, I'm out of luck. No, bringing an amp with EQ in it, or an EQ device I have to plug them into isn't portable or practical. I'm not bringing multiple cases, various interconnects, just for that.

I want cans that'll have sound I want as they are, plugged into anything that drives them well enough (headphone outs, found in most quality studios, be it from their interface, headphone amp or mixing consoles, will have more than enough power, and be very flat, and honest). If this was to be some kind of stay at home listening in my favorite chair setup, sure, having EQ in line is easy enough. The idea of these being promoted by Manny is to sell them to those in studios, or using headphones for mixing and mastering in various places and setups. The idea of multi-thousand dollar cans needing EQs, to just give you enough sub bass to actually hear it, makes these obtuse. Remember, these are constantly lauded for sub bass extension & power, without EQ being mentioned as how you get it. That is my issue.

 

[chargedcapacitor]

You'd completely missed what I said up there. Open-backed is no excuse. The Abyss Diana V2 is $4000 USD (less than an LCD-5). It weighs the same or less, it is open backed, and having demoed their Diana series (a few models) and their flagship as well (also open backed), I heard better sub bass than I've heard on 90% of close back headphones. While EQ can mitigate some of this it's not always accessible or ideal if you are using headphones in multiple places. For example, if I go to another studio I'll want to use my own headphones to hear mixes, for reference. If I require EQ to make them viable, and they don't have it, I'm out of luck. No, bringing an amp with EQ in it, or an EQ device I have to plug them into isn't portable or practical. I'm not bringing multiple cases, various interconnects, just for that.

I want cans that'll have sound I want as they are, plugged into anything that drives them well enough (headphone outs, found in most quality studios, be it from their interface, headphone amp or mixing consoles, will have more than enough power, and be very flat, and honest). If this was to be some kind of stay at home listening in my favorite chair setup, sure, having EQ in line is easy enough. The idea of these being promoted by Manny is to sell them to those in studios, or using headphones for mixing and mastering in various places and setups. The idea of multi-thousand dollar cans needing EQs, to just give you enough sub bass to actually hear it, makes these obtuse. Remember, these are constantly lauded for sub bass extension & power, without EQ being mentioned as how you get it. That is my issue.

That makes more sense, and I understand your point of view.