[EH-Yeon]

http://intona.eu/en/company
 
I have been looking at this to include this into my computer audio chain despite it is not focused on audio application.
 
Quoted from the company,
 

At Intona, our business nature is Professional Audio. Thanks to our fully equippped audio lab, we had the chance to take special attention keeping the noise of the power supply output as low as possible in the 20-20k range and we also optimized current flow using a high-speed current sensor probe that resulted in the probably industrial-wide lowest 8 kHz packet noise. We also did ensure the compatiblity to UAC 2.0 devices. Lastly, both XMOS-based and RME interfaces are tested and found 100% compatible to our high speed isolator product as it supports the full bandwidth of 480 MBits.

 
Preorder is open now and expected to be shipped at the end of September 2015.

 

[dmbr]

I use the schiit decrapifier...does this do anything different? Would it make sense to use both?

 

[EH-Yeon]

I use the schiit decrapifier...does this do anything different? Would it make sense to use both?

I do not own the decrapifier, and I assumed it is renamed as wyrd. If i am not wrong, wyrd is a usb hub with cleaner power supply and clock oscillator while intona seems to be a usb galvanic isolator at hi-speed (480mb/s) with FPGA design and isolator chips. To date, most of the usb isolators work at full speed (12mb/s).
 
they are two different product aiming at different functionality. So, I assume it would make sense and of course it would still depends on your devices on the chain next. 
 
All these is still my speculations, I am still waiting for more data and information to be released next month.

 

[EH-Yeon]

High Speed USB Isolator

Intona proudly presents the world's first in-the-box solution for isolating the USB 2.0 Hi-Speed bus. The device passed intensively testings using all kinds of high speed hosts and devices.

Standard Version (top) and Industrial Version (bottom) with high retention connectors

The Innovation

Previous isolators where limited to Full Speed (12 MBit/s) and Low Speed (1.5 MBit/s) transmission. This new product is capable of transmitting USB Hi-Speed (480 MBit/s) while providing full galvanic isolation of both the data and the power lines.

USB 2.0 Hi-Speed Isolator withstands up to 2.5kVRMS

This product is an ideal solution to break ground loops, avoid noise coupling and protect ports from power surges and voltage spikes in applications which require high speed USB transfers. The galvanic isolation barrier withstands potential difference up to 2500V. This suffices for most applications in field, lab and studio use. Dedicated products demanding higher insulation like medical equipment will follow.

Technical Specifications

1. Compliant to USB 2.0 Hi-Speed (480 MBit/s)
2. Isolation withstands 2.5kVRMS for 60 seconds
3. Advanced ESD protection (15kV IEC Air Discharge)
4. Backwards compatible to Full Speed and Low Speed
5. Works out of the box, no drivers needed
6. Transparent to host and device: works with all operating systems
7. Works also with hubs
8. Supports synchronous and isochronous transfers
9. Thoroughly tested with professional audio and video interfaces
10. No additional roundtrip latency
11. Powered by USB bus, no separate power supply needed
12. Ultra-quiet power rail isolation: less than 60µVRMS output noise (20Hz–22kHz), linear regulation
13. 300mA nominal (500mA max.) output current on isolated side
14. Connectors: host-side USB-B; device-side USB-A
15. Impedance controlled high-speed circuit design, signal integrity tested using Polar Instruments
16. National Compliances: FCC, CE, RCM, ICES-003
17. IP 54 ABS housing
18. Dimensions: 105 x 76 x 36 mm
19. Engineered and manufactured in Germany

 

Applications

1. Industrial automation systems
2. Measurement devices
3. Safety insulation
4. Machine protection

About Intona

Intona is an electronics engineering company based in Germany. For more than 15 years we deliver highly professional signal processing solutions to the industry world wide. Our deep knowledge in high speed signalling and in field programming gate arrays enabled us to come up with our latest development: the world's first high speed USB isolator.

Some update from the website from the last seen. Looking into ifi iusb 3.0 comparing to this as well. 

 

[GrouchoMarx1933]

Has anyone tried this? I know lots of people are gushing over the USB regen. In theory this should be even more robust, being designed for professional use.

 

[Deftone]

looks like it would go nicely next to one of these
 

 

[schmike]

I brought first batch and tested
First firmware have problem and getting audio data lost
After report and Updated firmware.
We getting a very good sound
I think it is the good for USB DAC

 

[xrobbo]

There is a very interesting discussion of the merits of the Intona on CA.
Link is here: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/which-one-buy-uptone-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-regen-or-intona-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-isolator-26815/

 

[motberg]

Hi everyone,
 
Thanks for all the input here, especially the computer audio and source components sections, I have been following things for a couple years now and Head-fi has been the a most beneficial source of information, even though I do not have any high-end headphones and use speakers exclusively for music. I think I can add some input to this thread so here goes....
 
A few days ago I changed an Uptone Regen (powered by Teradak 9V fed by Audio-GD HE-350 regenerator) with the standard Intona USB Isolator.
 
Now have a few days listening with the Intona in the chain..
 
Mine was quickly and professionally shipped and arrived in a few days via UPS (to China).
 
The most noticeable improvement from the Intona is the top end, cymbals especially are more natural sounding. (I have worked in bands and done a little recording) Generally from the lower midrange up, everything is MUCH clearer - with many details (sometimes entire elements) present that went unnoticed previously, for example Joni Mitchell, "Court and Spark", "Peoples Parties", it is now possible to immediately understand each lyric with her phrasing and pacing - and thus better to naturally follow her story line, you feel more like you are there with her.. Also - previously the beginning passages on Genesis "Duke", the cymbal play was mostly a wash of various intensity and tones, but my system could not resolve the sounds into individual cymbal play... with the Intona now it is possible to identify the various cymbals, positions and stick work.   
 
Generally, since I installed the Intona, on every album there have been at least a few places where I can now more easily understand the lyrics. I was listening to David Bowie, "Diamond Dogs" and the improvement was such that seemed the files had been remastered exactly to my liking.
 
Bass is a little tighter with the Intona, but not deeper. Dynamics are similar between the 2 devices.
 
Soundstage height/width/depth initially seemed pretty much the same - but after some evaluation with more spacious recordings, I noticed the soundstage actually deepened around 100% to the rear, and 10% to the front and sides, height stayed pretty much the same. Also pertaining to soundstage is the added detail which focuses  the elements positions within the soundstage and also adds elements that I have not noticed previously. For soundstage depth example, if you try the first song on Alan Parsons Project "I Robot", previously the choir parts stopped at my front wall (about 1 meter from the rear of the speakers), these same parts now have the effect of being back from the speakers up to 3 meters (minimum) with the elements and their movements very clearly defined.
 
I was testing a rather good tube buffer previously, as I like the comforting feeling that a good clean tube stage offers... After adding the Intona I decided to power the PPA card with the battery PS (and thus I guess the Intona) in an effort to soften things up a bit.... I have since taken the tube stuff out of the system.. the Intona cleans up everything so well that any tube smoothing is not required and still retains all the SS detail.
 
In my install with the Intona, I noticed that I now need to start the computer first, let it settle, then start the Tanley DDC for JPlay to see the Tanly KS... I cannot start the Tanley before the computer.. JPlay will not see the DDC. (With the Regen I did not have this procedural restriction). Also I first tried the Intona with the Regen-supplied USB adapter... things sounded OK, but overall the frequency balance was tipped to the upper end when using this hard adapter.. I replaced the adapter with my prior-used PPA short cable and now the top end is more relaxed and overall balanced.
 
Note, I was really really happy with the Regen improvements, it was really an eye-opener as to what is possible in this area.... but as of now it seems like there is nothing between the computer USB port and the DAC. Everything sounds really good with just the Intona. Adding this device into my system was for sure my most cost effective tweak, and subjectively similar or better than upgrading DDC's, adding battery power to the OS drive, or adding the power regeneration machine.
 
This is the first time in a long while I am entering the stereo room to listen to music - rather than to evaluate the status of the system SQ.
 
I guess soon there will be other devices similar, hopefully somewhat cheaper... but I think Intona did a good job with this device  -  and in my system the benefits were far greater than I would have expected with this level of investment.
 
Here is the current chain from computer to DAC...
 
Gigabyte GA-Z87M-D3H, I5-4670t, NOFAN CR-95c, 2x4 GB Corsair, TeraDak 210 ATX LPS,  PPA V2 USB card (battery), 32GB OS SSD (battery), PS/2 mouse, USB keyboard, on-board video (monitor is powered off during play), 256GB SSD(LPS) for primary music (all WAV files), SSD's use PPA red thin SATA cables and suspension blocks. WIN2012 and AO, JPlay6, Mini, Total Commander. Ultrastream/Hibernate, PPA dual USB cable, Intona standard USB isolator, PPA Regen-size USB cable, Tanly DDC via HDMI (Wireworld Starlight 5.2, 0.3M) i2S to Audio-GD Master 7 DAC.

 

[FredA]

  Hi everyone,
 
Thanks for all the input here, especially the computer audio and source components sections, I have been following things for a couple years now and Head-fi has been the a most beneficial source of information, even though I do not have any high-end headphones and use speakers exclusively for music. I think I can add some input to this thread so here goes....
 
A few days ago I changed an Uptone Regen (powered by Teradak 9V fed by Audio-GD HE-350 regenerator) with the standard Intona USB Isolator.
 
Now have a few days listening with the Intona in the chain..
 
Mine was quickly and professionally shipped and arrived in a few days via UPS (to China).
 
The most noticeable improvement from the Intona is the top end, cymbals especially are more natural sounding. (I have worked in bands and done a little recording) Generally from the lower midrange up, everything is MUCH clearer - with many details (sometimes entire elements) present that went unnoticed previously, for example Joni Mitchell, "Court and Spark", "Peoples Parties", it is now possible to immediately understand each lyric with her phrasing and pacing - and thus better to naturally follow her story line, you feel more like you are there with her.. Also - previously the beginning passages on Genesis "Duke", the cymbal play was mostly a wash of various intensity and tones, but my system could not resolve the sounds into individual cymbal play... with the Intona now it is possible to identify the various cymbals, positions and stick work.   
 
Generally, since I installed the Intona, on every album there have been at least a few places where I can now more easily understand the lyrics. I was listening to David Bowie, "Diamond Dogs" and the improvement was such that seemed the files had been remastered exactly to my liking.
 
Bass is a little tighter with the Intona, but not deeper. Dynamics are similar between the 2 devices.
 
Soundstage height/width/depth initially seemed pretty much the same - but after some evaluation with more spacious recordings, I noticed the soundstage actually deepened around 100% to the rear, and 10% to the front and sides, height stayed pretty much the same. Also pertaining to soundstage is the added detail which focuses  the elements positions within the soundstage and also adds elements that I have not noticed previously. For soundstage depth example, if you try the first song on Alan Parsons Project "I Robot", previously the choir parts stopped at my front wall (about 1 meter from the rear of the speakers), these same parts now have the effect of being back from the speakers up to 3 meters (minimum) with the elements and their movements very clearly defined.
 
I was testing a rather good tube buffer previously, as I like the comforting feeling that a good clean tube stage offers... After adding the Intona I decided to power the PPA card with the battery PS (and thus I guess the Intona) in an effort to soften things up a bit.... I have since taken the tube stuff out of the system.. the Intona cleans up everything so well that any tube smoothing is not required and still retains all the SS detail.
 
In my install with the Intona, I noticed that I now need to start the computer first, let it settle, then start the Tanley DDC for JPlay to see the Tanly KS... I cannot start the Tanley before the computer.. JPlay will not see the DDC. (With the Regen I did not have this procedural restriction). Also I first tried the Intona with the Regen-supplied USB adapter... things sounded OK, but overall the frequency balance was tipped to the upper end when using this hard adapter.. I replaced the adapter with my prior-used PPA short cable and now the top end is more relaxed and overall balanced.
 
Note, I was really really happy with the Regen improvements, it was really an eye-opener as to what is possible in this area.... but as of now it seems like there is nothing between the computer USB port and the DAC. Everything sounds really good with just the Intona. Adding this device into my system was for sure my most cost effective tweak, and subjectively similar or better than upgrading DDC's, adding battery power to the OS drive, or adding the power regeneration machine.
 
This is the first time in a long while I am entering the stereo room to listen to music - rather than to evaluate the status of the system SQ.
 
I guess soon there will be other devices similar, hopefully somewhat cheaper... but I think Intona did a good job with this device  -  and in my system the benefits were far greater than I would have expected with this level of investment.
 
Here is the current chain from computer to DAC...
 
Gigabyte GA-Z87M-D3H, I5-4670t, NOFAN CR-95c, 2x4 GB Corsair, TeraDak 210 ATX LPS,  PPA V2 USB card (battery), 32GB OS SSD (battery), PS/2 mouse, USB keyboard, on-board video (monitor is powered off during play), 256GB SSD(LPS) for primary music (all WAV files), SSD's use PPA red thin SATA cables and suspension blocks. WIN2012 and AO, JPlay6, Mini, Total Commander. Ultrastream/Hibernate, PPA dual USB cable, Intona standard USB isolator, PPA Regen-size USB cable, Tanly DDC via HDMI (Wireworld Starlight 5.2, 0.3M) i2S to Audio-GD Master 7 DAC.

I am restaining myself  from ordering one right away. Did you ask for customization to prevent blinking led when playing high-res contents?

 

[Superdad]

Hi guys:
 
I have an Intona too (though it needs firmware upgrade as it is very finicky with my XMOS-input DACs and some cables).  But just to be clear, its sole function of galvanic isolation does not duplicate or obviate the REGEN's function of improving USB signal integrity and impedance match (and REGEN's secondary function of providing very clean VBUS power to DACs that need it).
 
And given that the Intona has a single, very average clock oscillator--located on the dirty input side--for the entire device (for both PHY chips, both FPGAs, and fed over the isolator), and that the SilLabs TX/RX RF-type isolator and the FPGAs add LOTS of jitter, the output of the Intona really does benefit from the clean reclocking/generation of the USB signal the REGEN offers.
 
Thus the ideal set-up (short of having a galvanically isolated version of the REGEN) is to place the Intona before a REGEN.  Then you get the unique benefits of both.  That's what quite a few folks are doing.
 
Ciao,
 
--Alex C.

 

[bimmer100]

I got mine in the mail today. And will test it out this weekend likely. I posted on another thread, which i'll copy and paste my last post. since It didn't really belong there...it belongs here.
 
And I do have a PPA3 OCXO, have had it a while now. It's more or less a better option then the uptone regen. But that did nothing. So we shall see about the Intona.
It has the SiTime custom ordered version of the S150X - the chip is marked A08VW which is intona's own code for custom order, and 1512 which is the YEAR and working MONTH it was produced.
 
 
 
http://www.silabs.com/Support%20Documents/TechnicalDocs/cmems-oscillator-technology.pdf
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/368/Si501-2-3-276739.pdf
 
more info. it's around 2picosecond jitter in most cases.
EMI proof
I'm not finding any info about it being "dirty"
 
but on the other side of the Intona is an interesting chip - the SmSC or Microchip 

USB3320 - this supports ULPI input clock support which is how this device works from one clock, it is immune to dirty clocks anyhow, or they use the term "noisy" since it uses an integrated low jitter phase locked loop (PLL) to provide a clean 480MHz clock required for HS USB signal quality. This clock is used by the transceiver during both transmit and receive.
http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/Devices.aspx?product=USB3320
the specs are actually quite impressive.
 
Technically you could power this via a battery or external linear psu. it has an excellent regulator. would require 3.1-5.5v supply input. (pin 21)
 
so this works like so, it has two Si8660 chips, not typical, but required for full bandwidth and the complex FPGA chips.
The USB3320 USB transceiver chip handles all the USB signalling & converts the USB protocol into ULPI protocol which is a comms standard used in internal USB comms. The ULPI protocol interfaces with the FPGA chip communicating data via 8 parallel channels & the FPGA chip changes this parallel data into 8 bit serial data which it communicates with the other FPGA chip through the isolator chip. The thing about this is that the ULPI data rate is slower than USB 480MHz data rate - it uses a 8 bit data word @ 60MHz which is a lower signal rate that can easily pass through the isolators. The 6 channel connections between FPGA & Si8660 chip is the ULPI connection (3 control signals + clock + 8bit data channel) - bi-directional so needs two isolator chips. The SiTime clock stays in perfect sync regardless of it's noisy state, since the USB3320 has a low jitter PLL that is designed to lock in and output a strong signal on the "clean" side of the board.
 
'The Si8660 has 6 channels, each capable of doing 150 Mbps. "Mbps" is meant as "million baud per second" - that is the count of symbols per time. Effectively, this can be 300 MBit/s. Multiplied to 6 channels = 1.8GBit/s.'
 
 
this board even has an Atmel 32bit Risc Microcontroller  - which has it's own two oscillators and two phase lock loop allowing independant cpu frequency from usb frequency. Also, suprisingly supports i2s and has one 8 channel 10-bit analog to digital converter and 16-bit stereo audio Bitstream with support sample rate of up to 50khz. Just interesting component to have in this intona. 
 
after doing calculations of the noise for the intona. something is odd.. since it has 1.8v, 3.3v and 5v sources.
 
the regulator is .003% noise of these voltages, or 54uV for 1.8v , 99uV for 3.3v, 150uV for 5v
either way, thats excellent for noise figures. not amazing though. Maybe i'm missing something. I will literally just have to test the noise from the output port and find out for myself.
 
Either way, audible increases would be obvious if the 8khz spikes in data packets is reduced to -146db levels. That alone would allow for quite an improvement of the audible signal. 
 
well, i've done enough homework tonight. and done with this intona stuff. It's quite interesting to me. but I'll start posting in other threads now. 
 
 
I have my concerns about losing the benefits of the PPA3 as it would be before the intona. But listening will prove a lot. I realize the design of the intona is unique and may or may not work with my setup. But it will be fed into my U12 which is highly modded and regulated. I sold my uptone regen amber as it did nothing for my setup. I"m kinda wondering if this will work.
 
I havent really heard a bad review yet. Maybe i'll be the first? 
 
I feel better knowing there is another guy with the Paul Pang gear. I'm worried as the PPA3 is also being fed by a teddy pardo 5v now, and soon to be the Hynes SR3. Either way, I'm looking into the intona and see it's old regulators could potentially be upgraded. the l1117's...maybe some belleson super power mk2's. NOt really sure if this would be possible as I havent looked into it. plus at 60usd each, that would be pricey...i think the intona has 5-6 regulators to be swapped. potentially the SiLabs mems chip might be able to be replaced, but i'm not entirely sure. the smsc microschip usb chip should deal with a lot of the issues. I want to actually get some jitter measurements with this intona. Which is high on the list of to-do's. 

 

[bimmer100]

quote from company "At Intona, our business nature is Professional Audio. Thanks to our fully equippped audio lab, we had the chance to take special attention keeping the noise of the power supply output as low as possible in the 20-20k range and we also optimized current flow using a high-speed current sensor probe that resulted in the probably industrial-wide lowest 8 kHz packet noise. We also did ensure the compatiblity to UAC 2.0 devices. Lastly, both XMOS-based and RME interfaces are tested and found 100% compatible to our high speed isolator product as it supports the full bandwidth of 480 MBits." what we might be benefitting is the low noise of 8khz packet noise... apparently much much lower than even the optical corning usb cable at around 118db. or typical usb at 102-108db
 
please look again...Intona's packet noise of 8khz doesnt' even show up
http://intona.eu/pub/7054_fft_downstream.pdf
 
this shows 8K packet noise at full speed...not until 145db below you will see spikes in 8k noise... show me one device that does better.
 
 
more reading material...
 
 
The corning cable is mentioned, amongst many others...notice 8khz spikes...
 
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2015/05/measurements-usb-hubs-and-8khz-phy.html
 
 
 
still not interested?
 
take note of the audible ranges of each graph.
 
NOTHING to see with the intona until after the audible range. quite impressive to me. since it's clearly the lowest noise usb device to date.

So this blogger updated his comments about he Corning optical cable. It's fatally flawed. But the intona USB isolator would fix this problem! See what he says "
Hey there guys. Okay. I took the multimeter to the Corning optical cable and indeed the suspicions were correct - GROUND IS STILL CONNECTED.

However, given my findings, I am of the opinion that the noise reduction I'm seeing is primarily due to isolation of the data lines using optics which I think is *much more important*. That 8kHz tone IMO is much more bothersome than comparatively lower level noise and is originating mainly from D+ and D-, not the 5V and GND connections. Suppression of 8kHz at least in my system provided a nice proxy for quieting down the noise in general.

Again, love to see what the other commercial products would do in this "test bed"."

 

[mmerrill99]

Thanks for your analysis - very informative
Just a couple of corrections, I believe:

but on the other side of the Intona is an interesting chip - the SmSC or Microchip USB3320 - this supports ULPI input clock support which is how this device works from one clock, it is immune to dirty clocks anyhow, or they use the term "noisy" since it uses an integrated low jitter phase locked loop (PLL) to provide a clean 480MHz clock required for HS USB signal quality. This clock is used by the transceiver during both transmit and receive.
http://www.microchip.com/wwwproducts/Devices.aspx?product=USB3320
the specs are actually quite impressive.

Technically you could power this via a battery or external linear psu. it has an excellent regulator. would require 3.1-5.5v supply input. (pin 21)

so this works like so, it has two Si8660 chips, not typical, but required for full bandwidth and the complex FPGA chips.
The USB3320 USB transceiver chip handles all the USB signalling & converts the USB protocol into ULPI protocol which is a comms standard used in internal USB comms. The ULPI protocol interfaces with the FPGA chip communicating data via 8 parallel channels & the FPGA chip changes this parallel data into 8 bit serial data which it communicates with the other FPGA chip through the isolator chip. The thing about this is that the ULPI data rate is slower than USB 480MHz data rate - it uses a 8 bit data word @ 60MHz which is a lower signal rate that can easily pass through the isolators. The 6 channel connections between FPGA & Si8660 chip is the ULPI connection (3 control signals + clock + 8bit data channel) - bi-directional so needs two isolator chips. The SiTime clock stays in perfect sync regardless of it's noisy state, since the USB3320 has a low jitter PLL that is designed to lock in and output a strong signal on the "clean" side of the board.

[COLOR=333333]'The Si8660 has 6 channels, each capable of doing 150 Mbps. "Mbps" is meant as "million baud per second" - that is the count of symbols per time. Effectively, this can be 300 MBit/s. Multiplied to 6 channels = 1.8GBit/s.'[/COLOR][COLOR=333333]
[/COLOR]

The USB3320 does indeed communicate via ULPI with the FPGA. ULPI uses 8 parallel data lines @ 60MHz to give 480MHz throughput - the same as USB 2 - plus it has 3 or 4 other lines for control signals?

Each FPGA has only 5 channels to the Si8660 isolators (that I can see) so presumably the FPGA is doing some sort of signal compression over a couple of data lines + some control lines (on of which is the clock). In other words it's not ULPI that is being used between the FPGAs, it's some proprietary compression of the bit signals.

this board even has an Atmel 32bit Risc Microcontroller  - which has it's own two oscillators and two phase lock loop allowing independant cpu frequency from usb frequency. Also, suprisingly supports i2s and has one 8 channel 10-bit analog to digital converter and 16-bit stereo audio Bitstream with support sample rate of up to 50khz. Just interesting component to have in this intona.

I'm not sure what board you are talking about here but the Intona doesn't have an MCU or any other clocks than the Silabs MEMS clock you mention above? 

 

[bimmer100]

Thanks for your analysis - very informative
Just a couple of corrections, I believe:
The USB3320 does indeed communicate via ULPI with the FPGA. ULPI uses 8 parallel data lines @ 60MHz to give 480MHz throughput - the same as USB 2 - plus it has 3 or 4 other lines for control signals?

Each FPGA has only 5 channels to the Si8660 isolators (that I can see) so presumably the FPGA is doing some sort of signal compression over a couple of data lines + some control lines (on of which is the clock). In other words it's not ULPI that is being used between the FPGAs, it's some proprietary compression of the bit signals.

I'm not sure what board you are talking about here but the Intona doesn't have an MCU or any other clocks than the Silabs MEMS clock you mention above? 

The Mcu I mentioned was my error, when looking it up I clicked the wrong link. It was late last night and was clearly tired this soic8 on the dirty side of the intona directly avid the fpga. Adesto1512 45db021e sshn .
Maybe a flash memory IC?

I can find a better higher resolution photo but...headfi won't allow me to upload higher resolution