[hugz]

I like silver because it conducts better

I want to rewire my amp to the best of my ability with silver. However, because my skills only go so far, I wont be able to replace every bit of copper with silver. I'm hoping to replace 50% of the copper with silver anyway, because I figure that it's better to replace some then none.

My question is.. is there any problem with the signal constantly jumping between copper and silver? Since I'll probably only be abe to rewire 50% of the amps wires, then half will be silver and half will be copper. Will this cause any problems, or will it be fine?

I'll be sure to keep it symetric

 

[JJ15k]

There will be no effect at all if the soldering is ok.

 

[hugz]

Thats reassuring then.

Am i correct in my reasoning that replacing half of the copper is better than nothing? Having a look at the internals of the preamp, I suspect i'll actually be able to replace like 80-90% of it. Presumably the power amps are the same

edit: for the record, i'm not trying to create a "silver" sound or any such thing. I'm just trying to reduce any possible damage that may be caused by using copper. I'd like to be sure that something silly like wires aren't causing the bottleneck in my system, so I'll try go silver the whole way.. and i like opening things up and tweaking them, so it's half just for my enjoyment

 

[MASantos]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hugz Thats reassuring then. Am i correct in my reasoning that replacing half of the copper is better than nothing? Having a look at the internals of the preamp, I suspect i'll actually be able to replace like 80-90% of it. Presumably the power amps are the same edit: for the record, i'm not trying to create a "silver" sound or any such thing. I'm just trying to reduce any possible damage that may be caused by using copper. I'd like to be sure that something silly like wires aren't causing the bottleneck in my system, so I'll try go silver the whole way.. and i like opening things up and tweaking them, so it's half just for my enjoyment

What amp is it? Copper may not be a bottleneck in your amp if it is good quality. To say that silver is better than copper just like that is not true. It depends of factors such as wire quality and fabrication method, dialectric, etc etc.
If you don't change every bit of copper wire you'll always have a bottle neck somewhere right?


Manuel

 

[Francis_Vaughan]

You really need to ask yourself why you think there is any reason that changing the wire will make any difference. What physics is involved? If you want a better conductor, why not use thicker copper? If the silver wire is even one wire gauge thinner than the copper it replaces it will have higher resistance. The solder you use has 10 times the resistivity of silver (even if you use silver bearing solder it is still at least 6 times worse), the gold (if it is still used) inside the IC packages is worse than copper, and insanely thin. Many components use aluminium, tin, sometimes steel internally, and most of all - the resistors, well they are designed to have big resistances - that is the point. Would you be interested in replacing all the resistors in an amp with ones with silver leads? Inside the semiconductors, and especially the ICs, the conductors are made from thin films of aluminium and possibly of doped silicon.

There is no reason to think that a even quite large changes in resistivity of metal has any effect on the sound. Resistance is part of the reality of correctly operating circuits.

 

[nikongod]

i agree with the big q, what amp is it?

assuming you have not already:
can you upgrade the caps first? can you upgrade resistors? volume pot? those 3 things typpicallly have a MUCH more significant effect on the "sound" of an amp than its wiring.

 

[[AK]Zip]

Unless this amp is built point to point there is no reason in changing out wires. The traces on the PCB board are copper. If the amp is point to point then go for it and change out the wires.

-Alex-

 

[Uncle Erik]

What about the leads on the components? They don't make resistors and capacitors with silver leads, do they? They're usually aluminium or tinned copper. So unless you can get silver lead components, it'd ruin the effect, right? And what about the transformer(s), the wall jack and the power lines running to your house? Do they also need to be silver?

And are you really that unhappy with your amp? Why not build another one with a different circuit topology and see if you like that one better? It'd probably cost about the same, and you could always get your money back by selling it if you don't like it.

 

[hugz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by [AK]Zip Unless this amp is built point to point there is no reason in changing out wires. The traces on the PCB board are copper. If the amp is point to point then go for it and change out the wires. -Alex-

It is point-to-point

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikongod i agree with the big q, what amp is it? assuming you have not already: can you upgrade the caps first? can you upgrade resistors? volume pot? those 3 things typpicallly have a MUCH more significant effect on the "sound" of an amp than its wiring.

Ming Da MC-3R (preamp). Resistors and caps will be done at the same time as wiring. Would like to replace the pot with a stepped attenuator also, but I dont know enough about them (yet)



Ming Da MC-300D (power amp). No internal photo here, sorry.. same deal as above (except that power amps obviously lack pots)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MASantos To say that silver is better than copper just like that is not true. It depends of factors such as wire quality and fabrication method, dialectric, etc etc.

Good silver is always better than good copper though, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MASantos If you don't change every bit of copper wire you'll always have a bottle neck somewhere right?

But it's better to change some then none isn't it? Or else every person who changes any of their cables is being foolish because they haven't changed every single wire in their system

(oh, wait.. i just realised that this is precicely WHY i think cable people are foolish..)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis_Vaughan You really need to ask yourself why you think there is any reason that changing the wire will make any difference. What physics is involved? If you want a better conductor, why not use thicker copper? If the silver wire is even one wire gauge thinner than the copper it replaces it will have higher resistance. The solder you use has 10 times the resistivity of silver (even if you use silver bearing solder it is still at least 6 times worse)

Hm I hadn't thought of that. The idea is simply to replace the wire with better wire. I suppose that the thing is, whenever I see people upgrading cables and etc, I always think "yeah, but the inside of the amp is still all cheap copper...", so I guess to solve this, I'd like to make mine all silver.. and also just for fun

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis_Vaughan the gold (if it is still used) inside the IC packages is worse than copper, and insanely thin. Many components use aluminium, tin, sometimes steel internally, and most of all - the resistors, well they are designed to have big resistances - that is the point. Would you be interested in replacing all the resistors in an amp with ones with silver leads? Inside the semiconductors, and especially the ICs, the conductors are made from thin films of aluminium and possibly of doped silicon.

They are tube amps, so no semi conductors, gold, aluminium, steel or tin is used to my knowledge.. except possibly the connectors on the tube sockets? I'm not sure about that one.. The resistor leads are all copper to my knowledge.

I suppose the idea is that it's better to have, for example, 1 meter of silver and half a meter of copper, than 1.5 meters of copper. Even though there will still be copper in my system, the whole system wouldn't have as much electrical resistance as it would if it was all copper

Also, I'm not expecting it to be a "day and night" difference at all. It's just that I know that I will eventually open them up to replace the resistors, caps and pots, so I'm wondering if i should order some silver wire while I'm at it..

If it's an entirely stupid idea, let me know. If it's likely to have *some* (minute) positive effect, then I may as well do it because I enjoy tweaking things and it wont cost much

Thanks for the replies so far

 

[mono]

The short answer is that the vast majority of wire changes have only a placebo effect. If you aren't happy with the circuit as it stands, you should think about more significant changes than the wire. If you are happy with it, well then...

 

[hugz]

So will it make NO difference, or just a very small difference?

Seriously, I dont expect any big changes AT ALL. I just enjoy tweaking things, so if there's even a slight improve then I'll do it just for the fun of it

 

[threepointone]

If there is any difference, it's probably minute to the point that you can't hear it at all. I personally wouldn't even think about rewiring something point-to-point like that simply because it seems like sooooooo much work for virtually nothing at all. If you want to tweak something, i'm sure there's something else of more worth to tweak in there.

 

[thedoctor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hugz So will it make NO difference, or just a very small difference? Seriously, I dont expect any big changes AT ALL. I just enjoy tweaking things, so if there's even a slight improve then I'll do it just for the fun of it

IMHO, you're better off tweaking some other component rather than the internal wiring.
how much difference depends on where you ask the question. and in here, you'd most probably get 'minute to none'.

 

[Francis_Vaughan]

Quote:

Good silver is always better than good copper though, right?

Why? It has a very slightly lower resistivity. For audio purposes that is it. Your amp is a very nice neat build. However if you were to rewire it so that all those nice right angle wire dressings were replaced by shortest length diagonal wires you would achieve far greater reductions in resistance than by going to silver wire. Do you have any reason to think that that would improve the sound of your amplifier? If not, there is no reason to think silver will help.

Tubes don't tend to contain aluminium, gold, silver or copper - they would all melt. Tungsten for the filament, barium and strontium oxides coatings on the cathode and the rest is pretty much made of nickel. Nickel has about 4 times the resistivity of silver, and is worse than even aluminium.

The point about the leads on resistors was simple. Say you have a 100k Ohm resistor - pretty common in a tube amp where impedances are generally quite high. Why would anyone imagine that an reduction in resistance of its leads, or the wiring coupling that resistor to other components would make any possible difference?

 

[hugz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis_Vaughan The point about the leads on resistors was simple. Say you have a 100k Ohm resistor - pretty common in a tube amp where impedances are generally quite high. Why would anyone imagine that an reduction in resistance of its leads, or the wiring coupling that resistor to other components would make any possible difference?

Why do they use copper then? Surely there are cheaper metals?

anyway, the consensus seems to be that it will make 0 difference. I may or may not do it anyway depending on how bored I get and if i have some good silver wire hanging around. I'm sure that if i have any results, they wont be big enough to report on