[AlexCBSN]

Still waiting on a response...three emails since first week of October and got nothing.

Did you have to hound him?

Not really, sent him an email on Tuesday and another one on Thursday telling him that I needed a reply, mailed me 5 minutes later, Saturday I received the cancellation email

 

[harry501501]

Based on that and provided oxygen is 250 eur I conclude that if dawn and red dawn are indeed the same iem (which to me at the moment is still an if, until there are direct sound comparisons) at least dawn is priced more or less competitily on the current market and not a case of selling outright crap for absurd amount, which is good.

As a side note, Re800 is <100 eur and personally i much prefer oxygen to them, but it's a subjective hobby, so I'll still take oxygen as a price reference.

Thank you for sharing! Appreciated.

I'm confused here... Didn't someone buy a Dawn (lookalike) for $30 and conclude it's the exact same as the IRM Dawn? If so, it's FAR from being priced competitively... nowhere close.

Apologies if I've not read through the posts properly.

 

[Headphoneprobs]

Not really, sent him an email on Tuesday and another one on Thursday telling him that I needed a reply, mailed me 5 minutes later, Saturday I received the cancellation email

Thanks for letting me know. I'll...follow up again.

In the meantime, and in the interest of supporting smaller outfits, I bought a secondhand set of Bionic sound/Ukrainian victory AMT IEMs. Very interesting. Minimal bass but unique.

 

[RumboHifi]

I wrote to Bob 4 days ago to find out approximately when the enigma iems would be finished and I did not receive any response. It doesn't look good.

 

[fablestruck]

Boy these Zeniths change with burn in!
Lovely set, I might pick up a Zenith II from classifieds just for comparison.
Anyone had both?

 

[jon parker]

I'm confused here... Didn't someone buy a Dawn (lookalike) for $30 and conclude it's the exact same as the IRM Dawn? If so, it's FAR from being priced competitively... nowhere close.

Apologies if I've not read through the posts properly.

Some folks bought a lookalike sample from an OEM factory supplier. By the time you factor in shipping, taxs and and a fair mark up as per any business then its been thought of as being priced well
I dont think anyone has made a definitive comparison

FYI to buy a sample from the OEM company people needed to 'claim' to be a business or company themselves looking for a sample alone (which, if you were a business) ) to then brand or maybe re-tune by sending their specific needs for further actual manufacturing of said IEM

 

[curicat]

I'm confused here... Didn't someone buy a Dawn (lookalike) for $30 and conclude it's the exact same as the IRM Dawn? If so, it's FAR from being priced competitively... nowhere close.

Apologies if I've not read through the posts properly.

For me there are separate questions.

1. Does Dawn = Red Dawn.
2. In what price bracket the Dawn fits on the current iem market purely based on the sound.

Our fellow headfier who dug out Red Dawn on Alibaba put it higher then Oxygen. I own Oxygen, I know that it is priced at 250 and imo it sounds good enough for that price to be fair. => if Red Dawn sounds equal or better in my eyes it's not a straight rip off. Please note that I would probably have never found out about Alibaba as it's an OEM manufacturer.

Having said that, personally, I don't consider simply reselling a product 10 fold a valuable business proposition and wouldn't be supporting it, being aware of the fact. But if not for our local detective I don't think I would be aware of it in the first place. So in my eyes there is a consumer market and there is an oem market. And they are different markets. Hence I am comparing one iem price to another iem price of the similar sound quality on the same market and not the same oem price to it's consumer price. But that's just me and I am not saying that it's the one and only way to approach it

What is an undeniable fact though is that I am still waiting for refund more then a month after requested and over a year after the second invoice (the one after the deposit). What exactly was the point of "deposit" if in two weeks you are invoiced for the rest and then a year later the product is still "in production" is beyond me So that part is definetly not competitive, regradless of how you look at it.

 

[jon parker]

Boy these Zeniths change with burn in!
Lovely set, I might pick up a Zenith II from classifieds just for comparison.
Anyone had both?

Zenith II are quite different - liquid smooth and beautiful. Exceptional unique sound

 

[Zeppmeister]

I'm confused here... Didn't someone buy a Dawn (lookalike) for $30 and conclude it's the exact same as the IRM Dawn? If so, it's FAR from being priced competitively... nowhere close.

Apologies if I've not read through the posts properly.

The idea is: when you buy retail, you're paying for more than the raw parts. You're paying for the brand, the packaging, the tuning, the accessories, etc. Audio gear, smartphones, cars .... there's a margin there that is not always transparent.

So, the post you're referring to was just comparing the sound of the OEM to other gear and, based on that only, ballparking the cost. "These sound as good as Models X, Y and Z, which fall in the price range of .... "

I am also a little ambivalent about the "morals" of Bob possibly (or are we saying likely now?) getting a $30 unit from China and marketing it for a lot more as an IMR item. I guess business works that way.

On the other hand ... haven't we for a long time extolled the virtues of Bob's previous items and raved at the bang for the buck? We don't know what Bob's cost was for, say, the Avalon. Is he getting a 10x margin? 2x? 5x?

 

[holsen]

Nice to see censorship is alive and well on the IMR thread. WOW... I didn't this Zuck, Bezos or Gates had their fingers in here....

 

[harry501501]

The idea is: when you buy retail, you're paying for more than the raw parts. You're paying for the brand, the packaging, the tuning, the accessories, etc. Audio gear, smartphones, cars .... there's a margin there that is not always transparent.

So, the post you're referring to was just comparing the sound of the OEM to other gear and, based on that only, ballparking the cost. "These sound as good as Models X, Y and Z, which fall in the price range of .... "

I am also a little ambivalent about the "morals" of Bob possibly (or are we saying likely now?) getting a $30 unit from China and marketing it for a lot more as an IMR item. I guess business works that way.

On the other hand ... haven't we for a long time extolled the virtues of Bob's previous items and raved at the bang for the buck? We don't know what Bob's cost was for, say, the Avalon. Is he getting a 10x margin? 2x? 5x?

Well this was my initial reaction. I'm totally aware how a business works, I've managed bars and clubs for 25 years. I understand the costs and mark up to final selling price... but IF it was just the exact same $30 IEM - with the exact same sound that is - being resold with some cosmetic tweaks at £255... well, that's a bit iffy (for me).

I get the examples someone posted on it having a sound similar to £250 sets... but I'd doubt you'll find those exact iems as a no frills early prototype on Alibaba for £30. You'd have a dedicated thread on Head-Fi if there were finds like that out there... and it would be one of the most popular threads on the forum. Can you imagine a thread dishing out where some £250+ IEMs can be found minus branding and accessories for a tenth their price... would be smashing

Again, it sounds like nothing is concrete regarding the two. So all speculative.

 

[Zeppmeister]

You'd have a dedicated thread on Head-Fi if there were finds like that out there... and it would be one of the most popular threads on the forum. Can you imagine a thread dishing out where some £250+ IEMs can be found minus branding and accessories for a tenth their price... would be smashing

Maybe it's early days?

And, I hope my explanation didn't come across as condescending. Just trying to be thorough.

 

[harry501501]

Maybe it's early days?

And, I hope my explanation didn't come across as condescending. Just trying to be thorough.

Not at all. I was trying to reply to multiple POVs from the last few replies to my post. The point you made resonated with me regarding how it could be perceived if the Alibaba set was the same IMR one i.e. no retuning or updated internals.

Maybe that kind of markup is the norm when it comes to IEMs as you go up the price range, but that would usually be from a brand new concept and design, not a random find on Alibaba passed off as a bespoke product from a specialist shop. IMO.

Can't say enough that I'm talking hypothetically though. I'm not trying to accuse Bob of ripping people off with a cheap find from Alibaba. Hope it's not coming across that way.

 

[PeacockObscura]

Just being devil's advocate here but what's the chances of Bob randomly finding a £30 iem on Alibaba that happens to have a sound signature that matches his and even surpasses some of his earlier items but still has his signature tuning ..

As far as markup goes the UM amber Pearl cost £13k the subtonic storm costs £10k what do you really think the markup is on them or the £7k cables that are on sale

 

[PeacockObscura]

Also I'm out of the IMR game not because of all the scandal but because I have the Titan and I don't think there's any way for him to improve on them.... My new focus is Oriveti as I can't take their latest set out my ears.