[jon parker]

I do not understand what is the point of assessing and expressing superlatives from ...30 hours, or the meaning of replacing filters prior to a full burn-in. I suppose it's fun.

Well, allow me to enlighten you

Generally speaking, being an audio engineer I very much enjoy the magic of audio, the interplay of frequencies and how even a tiny change in a signal flow can make a huge difference.
Personally Ive been in the headphone/IEM hobby for decades and have burnt in / tried hundreds of IEMs

Specifically Ive owned around 26 ? maybe more of Bob's IMR IEM's, all of which Ive burned in using the same methods, music etc etc

OOTB you always get a somewhat exaggerated version of what the final sound will be like
After a day or so the exaggerated sound aspect of the new IEM goes and you have a more accurate representation of what the final sound will be like

As I have a lot of experience of how Bob's drivers develop over time (having been buying IEMs from him from years before IMR even started ) I can express an accurate report of the nature of any given IEM. Firstly to help other people get an idea of the general sound of the IEM but also to help me remember at a later date

So, I do not use so called 'superlatives' far from it

As for filters - Firstly using the black lower will show what the driver/s are capable of in terms of low end response, low end levels, and low end quality
I use the gold upper to begin with as Bob tends to tune his treble fairly hot - the gold filter [with my set up] gives a good balanced representation of the treble & mids

As for fun - If I want to enjoy the IEM before burn in then I will tune it to suit me. Sometimes I might change a filter after burn in but usually I can know what the sound will deliver and so can sort my filters out from the beginning

Finally my gear and audio is high end so the drivers can deliver their full ability, given me the opportunity to give an accurate as possible idea of what the IEM is capable off
Mostly to offer something to the community here so they can get an idea (with input from other members) of what each IEM can offer

Any more questions ?
'

 

[lukito09]

Hi All, I am considering to buy dac/amp for my future imr purchases, i own dark matter and planning to get seraph/elan+ , any dap/dac recommendation for my desktop setup? My choices atm is

SPL Phonitor SE Headphone Amplifier​

Just because it's on discount to sub 1000 on my local retailer.

or FiiO R7 All-In-One Streaming Amplifier or FiiO K9 Desktop DAC & Headphone Amplifier

My set up will have mixed of speaker/ bluetooth audio and cabled for IMR so a dac/amp that has feature to easily changing source would be priority.

https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/collections/desktop-headphone-amps-and-dacs ( This is where I am planning to get it from)

and also planning to buy Nyx+ BT5.1 Wireless In-Ear Monitor Cable can anyone confirm if the default black 2 pin will work on dark matter and seraph/elan+?

 

[Nick24JJ]

Well, allow me to enlighten you


Any more questions ?
'

You do not have to enlighten me. Suffice to say that I have not encountered your impressions about the Rah23, at least to the exaggerated degree you're giving them. No further questions, no further comment. I trust my ears.

PS_1: New members to the IMR community could benefit from honest impressions.
PS_2: Audio Engineer? Cool! For a minute I thought you are into Sales/Marketing/Advertising.

 

[jon parker]

Suffice to say that I have not encountered your impressions about the Rah23, at least to the exaggerated degree you're giving them.

PS_1: New members to the IMR community could benefit from honest impressions.

My impressions are 100% honest, clear, detailed and come from time served experience both professional and within the hobby and are for the purpose of helping people.

If you check you will see that the core members of the thread here, those of us who have been here since the beginning usually agree and confirm each others findings so there is no 'EXAGGERATION' of any type...except perhaps in my joy and love of quality audio

That is my only motivation and intention when taking the time to write impressions - to share what I love with the hope it might be of benefit to others

Also I always include my equipment so people can judge from that.
By that I mean AK, Sabre, Burr Brown, Sony DAC chips all give a quite different sonic flavour. So for example if you have an AK chip DAP you would appreciate that if I can listening to a Sabre DAC chip DAP I will be hearing a more 'aggressive' less smooth presentation and you can take that into consideration

and if you'll forgive my slightly sarcastic/bitchy comment- no-one else has had the same experience you have had with the Rah 2023. Not sure why? Maybe your set was faulty?

Instead of being critical perhaps be a bit more grateful for all the time and help people have offered you here.?

Anyway, I was thinking about your comments and when you say you find 'something missing' from the Rah2023 compared to the Elan+ - Im wondering if that missing thing is the sound and effect of the Bone conduction driver. It adds something quite special to the experience of the sound.
Listening to the Rah2023 today and it is quite different presentation of the sound - almost a 'reference' like sound - In other words, a bit more neutral and accurate than the more immersive sounding Elan+ ?

If you find my writing to be 'salesman like' then please don't confuse enthusiasm, joy with the hobby and a wish to share what I love with others from an ordinary selfish meaningless 'sales pitch'

Having said that I apologise if my writing led to a perception of something other that what it is and Im really happy you have found and love the Elan+
. . . An IEM that is better than any other TOTL IEM out there, better than seeing your first childs birth, taking a flight to space, your first love . . .
. . . Now then THAT is exaggeration

 

[jon parker]

Hi All, I am considering to buy dac/amp for my future imr purchases, i own dark matter and planning to get seraph/elan+ , any dap/dac recommendation for my desktop setup? My choices atm is

SPL Phonitor SE Headphone Amplifier​

Just because it's on discount to sub 1000 on my local retailer.

or FiiO R7 All-In-One Streaming Amplifier or FiiO K9 Desktop DAC & Headphone Amplifier

My set up will have mixed of speaker/ bluetooth audio and cabled for IMR so a dac/amp that has feature to easily changing source would be priority.

https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/collections/desktop-headphone-amps-and-dacs ( This is where I am planning to get it from)

and also planning to buy Nyx+ BT5.1 Wireless In-Ear Monitor Cable can anyone confirm if the default black 2 pin will work on dark matter and seraph/elan+?

Maybe consider the JDS LABS 02 amp. Its inexpensive and plays way above its price point. Its unique for an AMP in being neutral with a black background
The story of how it came into existence is a great read!
I don't have much experience with AMPs (although please check out Burson AMPs - a Superb Australian company) but Im sure others here have a lot more hands on experience than I do and will chip in with suggestions
Even if you do buy a high[er] end AMP the 02 is an amp that maybe everyone should own and is (deliberately) priced that everyone can afford
Good luck though and good hunting

 

[monsieurfromag3]

Hi All, I am considering to buy dac/amp for my future imr purchases, i own dark matter and planning to get seraph/elan+ , any dap/dac recommendation for my desktop setup? My choices atm is

SPL Phonitor SE Headphone Amplifier​

Just because it's on discount to sub 1000 on my local retailer.

or FiiO R7 All-In-One Streaming Amplifier or FiiO K9 Desktop DAC & Headphone Amplifier

My set up will have mixed of speaker/ bluetooth audio and cabled for IMR so a dac/amp that has feature to easily changing source would be priority.

https://addictedtoaudio.com.au/collections/desktop-headphone-amps-and-dacs ( This is where I am planning to get it from)

and also planning to buy Nyx+ BT5.1 Wireless In-Ear Monitor Cable can anyone confirm if the default black 2 pin will work on dark matter and seraph/elan+?

As for the Nyx you have to request the IMR-compatible 2-pin termination upon order. No extra charge, just longer pins that insert perfectly.

 

[Nick24JJ]

My impressions are 100% honest...

...no-one else has had the same experience you have had with the Rah 2023. Not sure why? Maybe your set was faulty?

Instead of being critical perhaps be a bit more grateful for all the time and help people have offered you here.?

...Im wondering if that missing thing is the sound and effect of the Bone conduction driver. It adds something quite special to the experience of the sound.
Listening to the Rah2023 today and it is quite different presentation of the sound - almost a 'reference' like sound - In other words, a bit more neutral and accurate than the more immersive sounding Elan+ ?

If you find my writing to be 'salesman like' then please don't confuse enthusiasm, joy with the hobby and a wish to share what I love with others from an ordinary selfish meaningless 'sales pitch'

Having said that I apologise if my writing led to a perception of something other that what it is and Im really happy you have found and love the Elan+
. . . An IEM that is better than any other TOTL IEM out there, better than seeing your first childs birth, taking a flight to space, your first love . . .
. . . Now then THAT is exaggeration

Thank you for your honesty and good intentions. Please, remember to express the cons, as well. For example, the Rah 23 has a major issue, it is not universal fit. I have normal ears. I had to try various tips to achieve a very good, not perfect, fit. The Elan+ has a much much better fit. No need to look for other tips, unless you want to experiment.

Remember to say the cons, as well.

I have always thanked any member helping me and liked their posts.

I am not exactly sure what the "effect of the bone conduction driver" is, but IF this has to do with the bass, that was not my problem with the Rah 23. Their bass was always there, from the beginning, maybe equivalent to the Elan+ bass, or a tiny bit worst. The problem with the 2 pairs of the Rah 23 I've received was the treble and maybe upper midrange. Very soft, very analogue-ish, like listening to a cassette tape, sometimes... Even after 800 hours of playback, it was still missing.

None of the 2 different pairs of the Rah 23 I've received was faulty. The first one had a slight driver mismatch and the filters were super tightly screwed. The replacement IMR sent me was definitely not faulty, as they've measured and tested it. So, with my second unit, and after 800 hours, I can certainly say I was listening to the Rah23 sound. And it was still sounding kind of dull.

Not many people have had the Rah23 when I was going through this. Zicarus is one guy I can think of, and maybe another guy called Alex.

Anyways, I am super happy with my Elan+ and I wish you will find your best IMR IEM, too. It is so strange IMR says the Elan+ is not for bad recordings. I've been listening to YouTube Premium via my FiiO BTR7 (LDAC), all day today. Because only there I can find the DJ mixes I love. I cannot know the level of their production, but what I am sure of is that I absolutely enjoy what I am listening to! It sounds fantastic, totally engaging! Marvellous! I've brisk-walked around 10K steps at the park, right across my house, under light rain, lost in music...

With the Rah 2023 I would be still pushing it obsessively inside my ear(s), to avoid (the feeling of) falling off...

 

[kfotheringham]

With the Rah 2023 I would be still pushing it obsessively inside my ear(s), to avoid (the feeling of) falling off...

Just to echo this. I returned the Rah for the very same reason as @Nick24JJ . I have an odd right ear canal, and could not get on with the Rah '23 fitment.

The DM, BC'23, and the Elan+ mould to both my ears perfectly.

Actually, come to think of it, I have had the same problem with many previous generations of IMR, probably equal to the amount of IMR products that @jon parker has tested.

 

[PeacockObscura]

Thank you for your honesty and good intentions. Please, remember to express the cons, as well. For example, the Rah 23 has a major issue, it is not universal fit. I have normal ears. I had to try various tips to achieve a very good, not perfect, fit. The Elan+ has a much much better fit. No need to look for other tips, unless you want to experiment.

Remember to say the cons, as well.

I have always thanked any member helping me and liked their posts.

I am not exactly sure what the "effect of the bone conduction driver" is, but IF this has to do with the bass, that was not my problem with the Rah 23. Their bass was always there, from the beginning, maybe equivalent to the Elan+ bass, or a tiny bit worst. The problem with the 2 pairs of the Rah 23 I've received was the treble and maybe upper midrange. Very soft, very analogue-ish, like listening to a cassette tape, sometimes... Even after 800 hours of playback, it was still missing.

None of the 2 different pairs of the Rah 23 I've received was faulty. The first one had a slight driver mismatch and the filters were super tightly screwed. The replacement IMR sent me was definitely not faulty, as they've measured and tested it. So, with my second unit, and after 800 hours, I can certainly say I was listening to the Rah23 sound. And it was still sounding kind of dull.

Not many people have had the Rah23 when I was going through this. Zicarus is one guy I can think of, and maybe another guy called Alex.

Anyways, I am super happy with my Elan+ and I wish you will find your best IMR IEM, too. It is so strange IMR says the Elan+ is not for bad recordings. I've been listening to YouTube Premium via my FiiO BTR7 (LDAC), all day today. Because only there I can find the DJ mixes I love. I cannot know the level of their production, but what I am sure of is that I absolutely enjoy what I am listening to! It sounds fantastic, totally engaging! Marvellous! I've brisk-walked around 10K steps at the park, right across my house, under light rain, lost in music...

With the Rah 2023 I would be still pushing it obsessively inside my ear(s), to avoid (the feeling of) falling off...

Fit is and will always be subjective after all we all have unique ears. I for one have not had any fit issues across the 18 sets of IMR iems.

The sound signatures of different iems are again subjective, some like dark some like bass head some like neutral doesn't make a set wonky just different. There would be no point in them all sounding the same.

I'M not right OR WRONG it's my opinion based on my big ears and how I perseve sound.
@jonparker described the RAH as he hears it. I bought it based on his description I am not dissatisfied it pretty much aligned to my thoughts. This was not a surprise as we have similar tastes. in sound signatures, equipment and music.

I own quite a few very well thought of chifi iems that don't float my boat but I wouldn't say they are bad just not to my taste.

 

[jon parker]

Thank you for your honesty and good intentions. Please, remember to express the cons, as well. For example, the Rah 23 has a major issue, it is not universal fit. I have normal ears. I had to try various tips to achieve a very good, not perfect, fit. The Elan+ has a much much better fit. No need to look for other tips, unless you want to experiment.

Remember to say the cons, as well.

I have always thanked any member helping me and liked their posts.

I am not exactly sure what the "effect of the bone conduction driver" is, but IF this has to do with the bass, that was not my problem with the Rah 23. Their bass was always there, from the beginning, maybe equivalent to the Elan+ bass, or a tiny bit worst. The problem with the 2 pairs of the Rah 23 I've received was the treble and maybe upper midrange. Very soft, very analogue-ish, like listening to a cassette tape, sometimes... Even after 800 hours of playback, it was still missing.

Thanks Nick - very good point about cons

I haven't found any cons as yet with my Rah BUT in reference to your points about fit - perhaps I should mention more often, when discussing sound that I always do 2 things

1. I remove the plastic ear guide from my cables so that the cable fits snuggly around my ear and
2. I always and only use NewBee foam tips which means I never experience fit issues as the foam itself holds in any shape of shell !
So in this regard, I agree with you..its never an issue for me so I forget that other people are using all manner of ear tips

A few years ago I went on a massive tip journey but ultimately I found my right ear hole is larger than the left and in the left there is weird shape so that when I move my jaw a certain way it half closes my ear canal. That was what then led me on the foma tip journey ending up with the long lasting and neutral sounding newbees

The bone conduction is a fascinating driver as its not always obvious what exactly its doing [for me] and its more of an 'effect' than an obvious 'sound' There seems to something about the immersion INTO the music.
A sound engineer colleague told me that the vibrations of the BC driver are sent directly into the inner ear and because of this its possible to perceive up to 40 kHz - I say 'perceive' as opposed to 'hear'
Its hard to define - the ear consciousness that processes sound....as it is a mind is potentially limitless so . . . ?

I wish I could have compared your Rah and mine in person as Its difficult to understand or appreciate the issues with the treble...or better to say, how you were hearing it, especially in terms of it being soft and analogue ish
I was messing with some different cables & filters today and if anything had too much treble - However it did remind of the treble of the ACE.

Its tricky trying to explain audio stuff sometimes, especially as we all have different hearing, sources etc etc. I find it endlessly fascinating
Anyway, I usually mainly talk about the sound of an IEM Out of the Box and then revisit halfway through burn in and finally talk more when the IEM is fully settled in

Anyhoo - thanks Nick, I'll try to more conscientiously inclusive going forward with descriptions

 

[kfotheringham]

The sound signatures of different iems are again subjective, some like dark some like bass head some like neutral doesn't make a set wonky just different. There would be no point in them all sounding the same.

And I think this is what makes this forum an amazing place for opinions, and I totally respect @jon parker and yourself @PeacockObscura . Truth be told, I didn`t get on with the RAH '23 either in technicalities. It sounded muffled to me - or more so - took a backstage. with less engagement (maybe as I was listening to the BC'23 before this). Granted I didn`t run it for 600 hours, but the early burn-in didn`t convince me to continue either. As @Nick24JJ said, the Elan + was/is a totally different adventure which I resonate with.

 

[jon parker]

Just to echo this. I returned the Rah for the very same reason as @Nick24JJ . I have an odd right ear canal, and could not get on with the Rah '23.

The DM, BC'23, and the Elan + mould to both my ears perfectly.

Actually , come to think of it I have had the same problem with many previous generations of IMR, probably equal to the amount of IMR products that @jon parker has tested.

Thanks for that
I think yours and Nick comments about having difficulties with the Rah are equally as important as the success that others have had with it
I think a lot of people rely on Head-fi as a unique resource for un paid for & un biased opinions from people who genuinely love the hobby.
Also you can follow individuals here and get to know peoples tastes and try for yourself if your own experiences and tastes match. In that way you can get 'reviews/opinions' that are invaluable !

 

[jon parker]

And I think this is what makes this forum an amazing place for opinions, and I totally respect @jon parker and yourself @PeacockObscura . Truth be told, I didn`t get on with the RAH '23 either in technicalities. It sounded muffled to me - or more so - took a backstage. with less engagement (maybe as I was listening to the BC'23 before this). Granted I didn`t run it for 600 hours, but the early burn-in didn`t convince me to continue either. As @Nick24JJ said the Elan + was/is a totally different adventure which I resonate with.

I think I mentioned that I bought the Rah2023 thinking they would have a certain character and I was not disappointed. I bought them very much with that in mind. I will be enjoying them for certain moods or specific needs such as wanting to rock the F out OR depending on how much they settle or change after the magic 550+ maybe something else?
I have found though the planar driver needs a lot of power to allow them to fully function
But
Its great that we are all in agreement at how incredible the Elan+ is
Pretty sure the Rah will be for specific moods but the Elan+ has thus far made everything sounds superb to - out of this world.
I bought it I think based on a couple of select words that someone posted above

 

[kfotheringham]

Its great that we are all in agreement at how incredible the Elan+ is

My god,....we are agreed on this!!

 

[tfenton02]

Received my Elan+ last week and just about complete with burn in. Here’s a quick comparison to BC which I received a few weeks back. Essentially, I find the bass quite similar (same nozzle & filters), hits hard, well textured, controlled, good sub and mid bass balance. I find the BC to be noticeably warmer. With Elan + the mids and treble comes across cleaner, more air and resolving. Overall tonality is similar and both having full, well rounded notes and very good, natural timbre.

Given I am finding Elan+ an upgrade I have listed my BC in classifieds. https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/imr-bc-2023.46675/