[Blizzard]

Hi everyone,

I just replaced my HD590 with HD650 and I'm really excited about their sound. But I'm wondering what would be the best way to improve it? They should be quite well burnt in, as I bought them used. The seller said they haven't been used very much, but I don't know if he tells the truth or not, but atleast they aren't completly out of the box.

I have a great stereo set for loudspeakers. Arcam FMJ A32 integrated amp and FMJ CD33 CD-player. But how good is the headphone output of the A32? The specs say 100ohm, which sounds a bit high for Sennheiser's 300ohm. How much do I have to pay for an amp to get a significant improvement? I still would like a headphone amp, because I use the phones in a different room. I will still use the CD-player for a source though.

I'm considering buying a Musical Fidelity X-CAN V3, possibly with the X-PSU V3 power supply unit, as I plan to buy the X-DAC later too. And I have been looking at the Cardass replacement cable for 250€ in my local Hifi-store. Are these a good combination? There is not many headphone amps around here to test in stores near where I live, not to mention replacement cords, so that's why I'm asking you guys. So if you have any other suggestions in the same prize class or maybe slightly higher(I'm prepared to pay for quality), please tell me, and if you could include an url to a store in the internet that sells those, that would be great.

My music preferences are mixed, but my favorite music is rock and heavy metal. I generally like clear and detailed sound, which the Arcam CD-player does offer.

 

[JaZZ]

I would cancel the aftermarket cable (for now) and go for the Corda HA-2 MkII instead of the X-Can V3. I haven't heard the latter, but from the comments I take it that it can't compete with the HA-2 and even less so with the MkII version, which I warmly recommend for the HD 650: excellent synergy, combining high neutrality with high musicality.

...and welcome to Head-Fi!

 

[Blizzard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ I would cancel the aftermarket cable (for now) and go for the Corda HA-2 MkII instead of the X-Can V3. I haven't heard the latter, but from the comments I take it that it can't compete with the HA-2 and even less so with the MkII version, which I warmly recommend for the HD 650: excellent synergy, combining high neutrality with high musicality. ...and welcome to Head-Fi!

Thank you!

The Cordas sure are interesting. The HA-2 is 580€, not bad, but I wonder how much the sound would improve by spending more? When are the headphones starting to be a bottleneck? The CORDA HA-2 MkII SE sure would be appealing. But that would mean I would have nearly 2000€ in the source and 1000€ in the amplifier, but just 350€ in the phones themselves. Overkill? In loudspeaker systems people tend to go for the opposite order when dividing the budget. Of course a great amp would give a good foundation for exploring better headphones in the future, and the source is for my main system too so...

I got an offer for an used Creek OBH21SE for 250€, MPR here is 360€. There are very few oppinions about it here in the forum. Just loads of people complaining about the previous version. It did get less points in a test in a Finnish Hifi-magazine than the X-Can V3, but it would be cheap.

I'm thinking of buying that as a temp solution, then saving a bit more to get a good Corda and after that, use the Creek at work.

The Corda Preheads would be nice too. Multiple inputs would be useful, but is there any improvements in sound. The Prehead MK II SE costs 300€ more. Is it worth it if multiple imputs aren't a must? Are there any good alternatives, like Corda, which are not so known brands as MF, Creek, Grado, Rega etc?

 

[Runningwater]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blizzard Thank you! The Cordas sure are interesting. The HA-2 is 580€, not bad, but I wonder how much the sound would improve by spending more? When are the headphones starting to be a bottleneck? The CORDA HA-2 MkII SE sure would be appealing. But that would mean I would have nearly 2000€ in the source and 1000€ in the amplifier, but just 350€ in the phones themselves. Overkill? In loudspeaker systems people tend to go for the opposite order when dividing the budget. Of course a great amp would give a good foundation for exploring better headphones in the future, and the source is for my main system too so... I got an offer for an used Creek OBH21SE for 250€, MPR here is 360€. There are very few oppinions about it here in the forum. Just loads of people complaining about the previous version. It did get less points in a test in a Finnish Hifi-magazine than the X-Can V3, but it would be cheap. I'm thinking of buying that as a temp solution, then saving a bit more to get a good Corda and after that, use the Creek at work. The Corda Preheads would be nice too. Multiple inputs would be useful, but is there any improvements in sound. The Prehead MK II SE costs 300€ more. Is it worth it if multiple imputs aren't a must? Are there any good alternatives, like Corda, which are not so known brands as MF, Creek, Grado, Rega etc?

I have the Creek OBH21 too.....
Actually it is not a bad amp considering its price. From my experience, OBH21 drivers the low impedance headphone better. I dont know how it sounds with HD650, but X-Can3 is definately better to driver HD650. Just try the headphone jack of your FMJ33 temporary and save the money for Corda HA2 MKII in the future.

 

[Blizzard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runningwater I have the Creek OBH21 too..... Actually it is not a bad amp considering its price. From my experience, OBH21 drivers the low impedance headphone better. I dont know how it sounds with HD650, but X-Can3 is definately better to driver HD650. Just try the headphone jack of your FMJ33 temporary and save the money for Corda HA2 MKII in the future.

The guy who sells the Creek also sells his HD650 so atleast he has used them together. The CD33 doesn't have a headphone output, but the A32 has. The problem with that is that it's in a different room, so I would need a long cable for that, and also volume control would be difficult.

The main reason for buying the Creek would not be the use as a temporary amp, but to use it later at work. I really like to listen to music at work, but the soundquality is just so incredibly poor when using cheap headphones directly from a motherboard integrated audio output and listening to mp3. Especially when I'm used to a real HiFi-system.

That's why I'm also looking for a cheap but good pair of closed phones, an cheap amp and a portable player(with HDD and WAV-format) for both travel and work use. Another alternative for the Creek would be Corda Porta MK II. That would be great for travel use too, but I'm not sure if it is better sounding than the Creek, and I don't travel that much, so mobility isn't really a must. Alltough the group buy price sounds tempting.

Is there btw. any cheap headphoneamps with digital input? Could be great for use at work too.

 

[Bosch]

Oooooh. I see that the Corda HA-2 MKII units are finally available from Meier Audio. Could someone freeze my bank account now!!

 

[mikeliao]

May I recommend a different method? The FMJ CD33 is a wonderful player, getting another player just for the headphones sounds like overkill. How about getting a Benchmark DAC1. Rewire the HD650 cables for balanced operation from the DAC1, and run a long coax/optical from the CD33 in the other room. The balanced cable rewire will cost maybe USD10 and will really help you enjoy your rock and metal. The DAC1 handles long digtal extensions extremely well. Do some forum searches.

Biggest problem will be the remote contol of the CD33.

 

[Blizzard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeliao May I recommend a different method? The FMJ CD33 is a wonderful player, getting another player just for the headphones sounds like overkill. How about getting a Benchmark DAC1. Rewire the HD650 cables for balanced operation from the DAC1, and run a long coax/optical from the CD33 in the other room. The balanced cable rewire will cost maybe USD10 and will really help you enjoy your rock and metal. The DAC1 handles long digtal extensions extremely well. Do some forum searches. Biggest problem will be the remote contol of the CD33.

I should not have mixed two different things in the same thread. I still plan to use the CD33 as a source. I will just have to draw a long RCA to my future headphone amp. Remote control is hard yes, but I usually listen CD:s from the beginning to the end, not skipping tracks, and I still need to get up from the chair to pick a new CD, so it really isn't a serious problem. This at home.

What I meant with the DAC was for work. I could store my favorite music on the computer, take them out digitally and use a combined DAC and headphone amp to listen at work, would be easier to have them in the same shell.

But any comments on the bottleneck thing? Isn't it silly to buy a 900€ or 1200€ amp for phones that cost 300€?

 

[mikeliao]

Depends on how portable you want to be. Are you talking ipod/supermono size, or PCDP/headroom cosmic size?

Personally, the extremely portable (meta42, supermono, bithead, airhead, etc.) battery powered amps are fine for the office but won't really match well with you home gear. But then you could do 2 completely seperate systems, a super portable one and a nicer one at home.

Another option is the Headroom Supreme/Cosmic. The Cosmic or Cosmic Reference won't disappoint your CD33, and it is portable enough to lug it to work everyday.

€900 amp for a €300 phones? Yeah, we're sorta backwards with that. You could consider the phones a good deal instead. I think Geek once said multiply the phones price by 4 when trying to match amps. Rough guestimate.

 

[Blizzard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeliao Depends on how portable you want to be. Are you talking ipod/supermono size, or PCDP/headroom cosmic size? Personally, the extremely portable (meta42, supermono, bithead, airhead, etc.) battery powered amps are fine for the office but won't really match well with you home gear. But then you could do 2 completely seperate systems, a super portable one and a nicer one at home. Another option is the Headroom Supreme/Cosmic. The Cosmic or Cosmic Reference won't disappoint your CD33, and it is portable enough to lug it to work everyday. €900 amp for a €300 phones? Yeah, we're sorta backwards with that. You could consider the phones a good deal instead. I think Geek once said multiply the phones price by 4 when trying to match amps. Rough guestimate.

I'm looking for a good amp to pair with HD650 and CD33, no mobility needed, and maybe a cable upgrade.

Maybe I'll forget about the work/travel set for now and concentrate on getting my home system built up first. The cordas would be interesting, what good options are there in the same priceclass?

Ok, so investing a lot in the amp is worth it? But if I later upgrade to 1000€ phones, I would need a 4000€ amp? Nice

 

[tom hankins]

The HD650 sings with tubes. I've got to try alot of the Singlepowers with them and they were all very good. Also owned the ASL OTL32 and it was good with the senns. www.singlepower.com

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blizzard Ok, so investing a lot in the amp is worth it? But if I later upgrade to 1000€ phones, I would need a 4000€ amp?

$1000 for an amp to drive a $400 headphone seems like a quite reasonable ratio (from a Head-Fi perspective...). In this case the headphone (HD 650) i absolutely worth it. I can't see a $1000 headphone which could reach its sound quality, not even electrostatics -- this is of course my subjective view.

On the other hand I for one wouldn't bother with headphone amps costing more than say $1500. The one above this price class I've auditioned has turned out to sound impressive and euphonic, but less neutral and accurate than my own amps. My HA-2 MkII sounds as close to the input signal as it gets, as I see it, with just a little bit of euphony and forgivingness added. I fear that more expensive amps are prone to sound more spectacular than the original signal. (BTW, my reference is the DAC2's output signal fed directly to the HD 650.)

I haven't heard one of the highly regarded SinglePower amps yet. So far I'm a bit skeptic in the above sense -- but from the reviews I don't doubt that they sound «great» with the HD 650.

 

[Mastergill]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blizzard But any comments on the bottleneck thing? Isn't it silly to buy a 900€ or 1200€ amp for phones that cost 300€?

Don't worry, with HD650 you have one of the best dynamic phones ever made.
They can easily stand $5k amp and $5k source. At one point the headphone cable will be the bottleneck, but as JaZZ said, you can change it at last. Put your money first in a good source, then amp, then cable.

 

[Target1]

I would say that if you want to spend more thand 1500 on an amp, save your pennies for a bit and try to get an HE 60/70 somewhere. They are difficult to find, but they usually go for roughly 6-7k (all used of course, the were 15k new). I haven't had the pleasure of listening to one, but from reading lots of posts I gather that they really cant be touched by anyting else out there.

*Mark*

[edit I gave my gaming forum name by mistake, its Target if anyone is interested.]

 

[Blizzard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom hankins The HD650 sings with tubes. I've got to try alot of the Singlepowers with them and they were all very good. Also owned the ASL OTL32 and it was good with the senns. www.singlepower.com

Singlepower sure is an interesting alternative. I have not much experience of tubes but I like the idea. The X-can V3 is some kind of hybrid I think. The singlepowers are also nicer to look at than Cordas for example. Of course this has nothing to do with sound, but such things do matter to me.

The MPX3 with some upgrades would still be in my budget. It's nice when the dollar is so low compared to Euro, allthough I would probably have to pay 22% VAT and some toll to get it to Finland so with shipping I can pretty much count 1$=1€ in this case. Unless Singlepower would be willing to put a lower price on the package

Now If I would go for the MPX3, what upgrades would be most useful? I used the search but didn't find any real answers. What are the effects on sound of different upgrades? Or should I ask the manufacturer directly? Do people usually order them with stock tubes or directly with some better ones? Or do they prefer to buy the tubes from somewhere else?

It's hard to decide without hearing them. Has anyone compared like Corda HA-2 Mk II to MP3X?