[3X0]

I got a chance to really try the iM716 with the foamies today. I must say that they were quite intimidating to insert. Even when rolling them in between my fingers thoroughly, they seemed to expand rapidly as I shot them into my canals, resulting in a painful, abrasive feeling in my ears. After several tries, I found that the best method (in my experience) is to simply squeeze them (rather than roll them around) and quickly press them into my earholes. This was awkward because I normally consider my ear canals fairly large compared to the average ear. I'd hate to think how someone with small canals would put the foamies in.

Anyway, it seemed a lot more comfortable on the third or fourth try. Isolation seemed to be instantly superior to the tri-flanges without half as much effort to get the right seal. This was without any music playing, however. When I started playing "After All" by Delerium, I was flat-out amazed.

This IEM sounds amazing!

As controversial as it may be, I honestly like these monitors more than my ER4 now. They're not more analytical. They're not more detailed. They don't have the same level of clarity. However, these phones have body. I'll be honest, I never realized how lean my ER4 was until after this revelation. Now that I've found heaven in the foamies, I might relegate my ER4 to the closet (and take them out for classical music, which I rarely listen to anymore). It seems with one tip change I've realized what bass and body is in an IEM. It's even better that it's all still extremely articulate and defined bass; none of that muddy rubbish that plagues so many headphones and IEMs alike.

There's so much body in all my music (involving mostly electronica, rock, and alternative) now. I can readily recommend these monitors over the ER4 for those genres. I can hear why the iM716 is handily bested by the ER4 in classical and other genres that are lean in nature and best observed with pragmatic analysis, but for music that needs to convey body and a sense of fun, I'll always pick the iM716.

I'm honestly extremely surprised.

 

[milkpowder]

Glad to know you're enjoying them!

 

[jSatch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3X0 I got a chance to really try the iM716 with the foamies today. I must say that they were quite intimidating to insert. Even when rolling them in between my fingers thoroughly, they seemed to expand rapidly as I shot them into my canals, resulting in a painful, abrasive feeling in my ears. After several tries, I found that the best method (in my experience) is to simply squeeze them (rather than roll them around) and quickly press them into my earholes. This was awkward because I normally consider my ear canals fairly large compared to the average ear. I'd hate to think how someone with small canals would put the foamies in. Anyway, it seemed a lot more comfortable on the third or fourth try. Isolation seemed to be instantly superior to the tri-flanges without half as much effort to get the right seal. This was without any music playing, however. When I started playing "After All" by Delerium, I was flat-out amazed. This IEM sounds amazing! As controversial as it may be, I honestly like these monitors more than my ER4 now. They're not more analytical. They're not more detailed. They don't have the same level of clarity. However, these phones have body. I'll be honest, I never realized how lean my ER4 was until after this revelation. Now that I've found heaven in the foamies, I might relegate my ER4 to the closet (and take them out for classical music, which I rarely listen to anymore). It seems with one tip change I've realized what bass and body is in an IEM. It's even better that it's all still extremely articulate and defined bass; none of that muddy rubbish that plagues so many headphones and IEMs alike. There's so much body in all my music (involving mostly electronica, rock, and alternative) now. I can readily recommend these monitors over the ER4 for those genres. I can hear why the iM716 is handily bested by the ER4 in classical and other genres that are lean in nature and best observed with pragmatic analysis, but for music that needs to convey body and a sense of fun, I'll always pick the iM716. I'm honestly extremely surprised.

FUNtastic!!!

Thank you for that comparison.

Might I suggest you try some very smooth, comfy, squishable polyurethane foamies next. You can easily DIY, or just buy Comply tips.

The FUN is just beginning.

 

[3X0]

I most definitely will try Complies and will report back. I'll probably wait a while for the in-box foamies to get all crusty and icky first, though. Somewhere along the line I might try the podectomy and see if it unleashes the sound, but right now I'm completely satisfied and I really can't detect much of a leash to unleash; I'd be thoroughly surprised if I could make these sound any better than they do now.

One thing I was surprised at was the power needed to drive these things. From all the posts concerning its difficulty to drive, I was quite anxious before plugging them in. Surprisingly, they're powered very easily by my Cowon iAudio X5L through the headphone-out. I can listen to them very comfortably somewhere in between the level I use for the ER4P and the level I use for the KSC-75.

 

[jSatch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3X0 I most definitely will try Complies and will report back. I'll probably wait a while for the in-box foamies to get all crusty and icky first, though. Somewhere along the line I might try the podectomy and see if it unleashes the sound, but right now I'm completely satisfied and I really can't detect much of a leash to unleash; I'd be thoroughly surprised if I could make these sound any better than they do now. One thing I was surprised at was the power needed to drive these things. From all the posts concerning its difficulty to drive, I was quite anxious before plugging them in. Surprisingly, they're powered very easily by my Cowon iAudio X5L through the headphone-out. I can listen to them very comfortably somewhere in between the level I use for the ER4P and the level I use for the KSC-75.

Yeah, I agree with you. I don't know what all the fuss is about with driving these. 75-85% on a 4G iPod was pretty much maxed out for me.

The polyurethanes will give even more body to the sound. I haven't had the good fortune to hear the ER4s, but if the out-of-box iM716s (and these will sound better after burn-in) have more body than the ER4s, then there is something wrong there. I've always appreciated a fast transient response (articulation), but that does not mean the balance needs to be skewed to the hot end. Even classical doesn't sound good like that. Sure, you hear the decay of the piano or violin, but what about the fundamentals? Vocalists too, eg opera singers, lose their 'chest' or depth. For example, just think of what Pavarotti would sound like if he weighed 97 lbs.

With the Podectomy you will get rid of that in-line junk = better SQ. You can then customize the EQ to your liking depending on the resistors you put in-line. Simpler than it sounds. Sans Pod the upper end sounds smoother, and the bottom fuller (without that phasey effect I sometimes got from the Bass switch of the pod). This is more about quality of the sound though. The polyurethane tips will give fuller bass.

Enjoy. It only gets better.

 

[terance]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3X0 I most definitely will try Complies and will report back. I'll probably wait a while for the in-box foamies to get all crusty and icky first, though. Somewhere along the line I might try the podectomy and see if it unleashes the sound, but right now I'm completely satisfied and I really can't detect much of a leash to unleash; I'd be thoroughly surprised if I could make these sound any better than they do now. One thing I was surprised at was the power needed to drive these things. From all the posts concerning its difficulty to drive, I was quite anxious before plugging them in. Surprisingly, they're powered very easily by my Cowon iAudio X5L through the headphone-out. I can listen to them very comfortably somewhere in between the level I use for the ER4P and the level I use for the KSC-75.

glad to know more people love the iM716!!

the complys are worth a try, they don't feel as snug in my ear, but they are alot more comfortable than the rubber/silicone tri flanges

 

[epithetless]

Just to be clear, 3X0, are you referring to the sound in HD mode or Bass mode?

As a side note, it continues to amaze me how different people's ear can be...For instance, I simply cannot find body in the iM716, from an unamped portable dap, in HD mode. Bass mode is a must in my case, Complys or not, and I actually prefer the sound through Ety tri-to-bi-flanged tips. Funny that.

 

[J-Pak]

Now you've done 3XO you're going to bring in the Etymotic ER4(B/P/S??) fanboy.

On another note I'm still loving the iM716 and still prefer it to the ER4P because it makes music not flat lifeless noise. Which foamies did you try with it? I get a better seal with the triflanges, but I'm thinking about DIY'ing some foamies. I'm not a big fan of the included pair.

 

[jSatch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by terance glad to know more people love the iM716!! the complys are worth a try, they don't feel as snug in my ear, but they are alot more comfortable than the rubber/silicone tri flanges

I was under the assumption that Complys came in different sizes. I think you can try the earplug super store. They have all sorts of goodies there for the ear-centric.

http://earplugstore.stores.yahoo.net/index.html


Easier still, and cheaper too, is to try DIY.

 

[jSatch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Pak Now you've done 3XO you're going to bring in the Etymotic ER4(B/P/S??) fanboy. On another note I'm still loving the iM716 and still prefer it to the ER4P because it makes music not flat lifeless noise. Which foamies did you try with it? I get a better seal with the triflanges, but I'm thinking about DIY'ing some foamies. I'm not a big fan of the included pair.

A good point here J-Pak.

The tri(bi)-flanges do appear to seal very well. However, I think due to their thin and flexible nature, a good bit of the sound that needs to be trapped in the ear canal for the miniscule speaker to load, will be lost either through transference or energy.

The open-cell design of the PVC foamies (supplied) do fare better with me, but again this is not an ideal sound isolating material. Similar structures are used to absorb sound in sound isolating booths, inside speaker boxes, etc. Absorbing sound is not ideal.

The denser polyurethane appears more sound inert.

Think of it this way, if you are in a room and your roommate is in the next listening to TV, which would make a better sound-isolating door, a 2” layer of silicon, a 2” layer of open-cell PVC or a 2” layer of dense polyurethane?

Not a good analogy, but you get the idea.

 

[els0rz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by epithetless Just to be clear, 3X0, are you referring to the sound in HD mode or Bass mode? As a side note, it continues to amaze me how different people's ear can be...For instance, I simply cannot find body in the iM716, from an unamped portable dap, in HD mode. Bass mode is a must in my case, Complys or not, and I actually prefer the sound through Ety tri-to-bi-flanged tips. Funny that.

I actually find the sound to be lean when unamped. Through an amp the body really develops, soundstage open up...i found with the tri tips it goes too deep and thus makes a warmer sound. Comply's offer the best balance for me

 

[3X0]

It was difficult to pinpoint sonic differences between the HD and Bass modes as the volume would change (10dB or so) during switching. However, at comfortable levels for either I find that the iM716's Bass mode offers more body than the iM716's HD mode, which offers slightly more body than the ER4P in general. I usually use HD mode on alternative and rock tracks and Bass mode on electronica. It's pretty convenient.

After going back to the ER4P, they just seem too thin! I may have to try different tips other than the supplied tri-flanges again, though they've always worked well for me. Nevertheless, when I did use the foamies for the ER4P, everything sounded thin and finely drawn. They were extremely refined, don't get me wrong, but they were just so thin-sounding.

I was using the supplied foamies as well. The tri-flanges offer a decent seal for me (as I have had extensive experience with the ER4P's tri-flanges), but the foamies are simply better at it. I'm getting really excited about DIYing my own or buying some Complies.

To be a little bit more fair, I'm actually the third owner (I believe) of this iM716. I bought it off the F/S forums, if prior use did anything to improve the sonic qualities.

They're still so foot-tappingly good!

 

[kin0kin]

People actually use the Bass mode?

the bass mode makes the phone sound like poo to me, it adds nothing aside of bloated, distorted bass, and induce poor dynamics to the music. People who likes bassmode should forget about the 716 and get the E500, which is far superior to the im716 in bassmode. HD is the only way for me, and sometimes i still find it a little too lush, but definitely more pleasing than the ER4's colder sound.

 

[3X0]

Bass mode felt sort of "messed up" when I was using the tri-flanges. They were definitely bloaty and muddy compared to HD for whatever reason.

With the PVC's however, I don't really hear any bloat in either mode. This is with 320kbps MP3 with EQ off through Rockbox. Everything always seems to sound articulate and fine to me, even in Bass mode; though the ER4 still seems to sound more analytical overall. Maybe I'm not listening loud enough (I'm using astonishingly low volumes).

I, too, feel the ER4 is too cold. I believe that's the cause of the relatively disappointing performance with the particular genres I listen to now. Back in my days of classical and new-age instrumental, the ER4's really shone.

I'd love to have gotten the E500 but my budget was about 1/5 the lowest price I could find it for.

 

[Ikarios]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kin0kin People actually use the Bass mode? the bass mode makes the phone sound like poo to me, it adds nothing aside of bloated, distorted bass, and induce poor dynamics to the music. People who likes bassmode should forget about the 716 and get the E500, which is far superior to the im716 in bassmode. HD is the only way for me, and sometimes i still find it a little too lush, but definitely more pleasing than the ER4's colder sound.

I thought Bass mode was the only way I could listen to the 716, but then again I had only used triflanges up until then

. I popped in foamies the other day (and they ARE a big PITA to insert), and poof! more magic from the 716. Now I can use them in HD mode