I'm a non believer in amps. Is there really a big difference?

[MaZa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luminette /img/forum/go_quote.gif x-fi's are not integrated soundcards, and are not on par with that extent of low SQ

He said, that his headphones are driven EITHER out of X-Fi, or laptops soundcard. And since there is no internal X-Fi for laptops, and external X-Fis are more Audigys... Either way, switching from X-Fi to new smaller grade dac+amp box doesnt probaply yield a huge difference, but from laptop soundcard it will most likely do.

 

[diab0lik]

another option would to buy xfi for your laptop. u need a expresscard slot though. It's good to be satisified with what you have now. i on the other hand keep striving to find sumthing new and better than what i already have. its an expensive habit to have though... i still recomend that you should try an amp at a store to see the difference

 

[Dorito123]

Get the Bithead, its inexpensive and you definitely need to upgrade your source as well as your headphone amp section. You will like it and then you can listen to great sound while you are looking for your first desktop amp (if you choose to do so). The Bithead is great for computers, it has two headphone outs so you can run powered speakers and your headphones and you can use the USB input for your music and run your laptop headphone out into the analog input on the Bithead so you can have amped headphones for gaming. One other fringe benefit is you can install batteries and take it on the go if you like. I think its a great place to start and if you have come this far without a product like this then I think you are (maybe) the type of person to be happy with the Bithead.

 

[anoobis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by royalcrown /img/forum/go_quote.gif Gotta love the amount of analogies in this thread. It's been stated before, and it's great advice, so I'll reiterate at the risk of sounding awfully repetitive: if it sounds good, you're set. There's no need to worry about the "potential" you're missing out on, because at the end of the day the amp really only gives you that last 10% of the sound. Even at the ultra-high end, there's always some "potential" sound that you'll be missing, and thus it'll never end. Many people on this forum (not naming anyone in specific, just the general "mood" of the forum) will overstate the difference an amp can make. The difference between unamped with a quality source and amped with the same source is not the difference between a bad and good pair of headphones. The difference is much subtler and though it may be worth it depending on your preferences, it's hardly a "bang-for-your-buck" scenario. Now, aside from the value aspect of an amp, to answer your question: why do amps make a difference? Say you have a 1 watt amp, driving loudspeakers with an 86db sensitivity (gah, I know, more analogies, but since phones and speakers are so similar, it's a bit more apt for comparison's sake). Assuming you get very close to the speakers, you may hear some pretty cool sound. However, two things happen at this point. 1) you're so close to the speakers that you can't discern a true soundstage from the speakers. Granted, this example isn't necessarily 1:1, but if you listen to music distortion-free (which rarely occurs, but given the assumption), unamped it would be so quiet that you'd have to strain your ears, thus making it harder to discern subtleties. 2) Say you want to step back from the speakers to get a soundstage (or in the case of headphones, crank the volume a bit to discern the quiet parts of a song). At this point, ALL of the musical information passing through the song much reach within the headroom given by the amplifier. In other words, at this raised volume, some parts of the song may sound fine, but as soon as a loud section comes in, it will peak at a level beyond 1 watt. Granted, the volume will still be there, but the wave will be so clipped that it will distort, which is less than optimal. Now, the million dollar question, with an answer that's very personal for each person, is whether or not reducing/eliminating that distortion is worth plunking down x dollars for. That leads back to the first paragraph again, which leads full-circle. When I first got my amp, I was hoping for a truly night-and-day difference. Little did I know how abused that term is. Going from an HD-280 to a Beyerdynamic DT880 had a MUCH larger difference than from unamped to amped. Over time, I came to appreciate the subtleties given by my amp, and I do not regret the purchase. That being said, it is what it is - a subtlety. Yikes, I just realized I wrote a hell of a long post - sorry if it comes off as rambling.

I'm coming in a bit late on this, but royalcrown, great post.

 

[Dobro]

This is a great thread, certainly more helpful to me then other related discussions I've read here. If I may piggy-back on here, I've had similar questions and doubts as the OP has. One is if you have an amp that has enough power (by power I mean exactly that, wattage) to drive the headphone to the desired volume and has enough reserve power to handle any dynamic surges without clipping, what does getting a more powerful amp buy you, if anything. Again I'm only talking about power alone.

The reason I ask is that a lot of improvements attributed to "more power" I suspect are the results of other factors.

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

This is a great thread, certainly more helpful to me then other related discussions I've read here. If I may piggy-back on here, I've had similar questions and doubts as the OP has. One is if you have an amp that has enough power (by power I mean exactly that, wattage) to drive the headphone to the desired volume and has enough reserve power to handle any dynamic surges without clipping, what does getting a more powerful amp buy you, if anything. Again I'm only talking about power alone.

Nothing. Only perhaps better transparency/less soundsignature amp might add to the sound of DAC and headphones due to better and cleaner design, a cleaner sound that is, but nothing else.

 

[oicdn]

Think of your iPod as a smart phone or Blackberry.

Smart phones can go online, be a phone, save pictures, take pictures, type documents, be a PDA, listen to music, etc. They can do all those things OK, but they're not great as a phone, PDA, PC, etc. i.e. they can do it all OK, but they're not "great" at anything.

Getting a separate amp does just that, it makes your amplification GREAT, because that's all it does and because the onboard amp is just OK.

 

[Dobro]

Thanks MaZa, thats very helpful. If I understand correctly, the greater transparency and cleaner sound is not a result of more power but rather of other design attributes of the amp. In other words one could have an amp that is less powerful but with cleaner sound.

What about other improvements some have said greater power would provide such as sound stage and detail?

More generally, what specs should one look at when shopping for an amp? Both HP specs and amp specs.

 

[tk3]

There's often lower noise floor on sensitive headphones with a good amp also, hissing is an annoyance with music that has quiet passages.

 

[Dobro]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk3 /img/forum/go_quote.gif There's often lower noise floor on sensitive headphones with a good amp also, hissing is an annoyance with music that has quiet passages.

Yes but is this due to the amp being more powerful (greater wattage) or due to other design issues?

 

[oicdn]

Mainly design. You don't have to worry about a screen telling you what music is playing, or other features like video processors, etc. You have a strictly audio circuit, and design is what attributes to the path that has no interference from other factors.

 

[Dobro]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oicdn /img/forum/go_quote.gif Mainly design. You don't have to worry about a screen telling you what music is playing, or other features like video processors, etc. You have a strictly audio circuit, and design is what attributes to the path that has no interference from other factors.

I was thinking more in terms of stand alone amps being compared. I understand the limitations of the amps in mp3 players and other portable devices. I take it when you say "mainly design" you mean that the issues that tk3 mentions are not related to power but rather other design attributes of the amp, am I correct?

 

[oicdn]

^ yeah, circuit design plays the largest role in how an amp performs. Many will say opamps will be huge factor. In which there's no doubt they are a huge contributor, but if properly implemented, some opamps that are generally perceived as better than others may sound "inferior" or less preferenced. Which is why I'm not an "opamp" guy. Don't get me wrong, I've rolled opamps in my iBasso D1 to make it sound "better", but I don't prefer one opamp over another, i.e. I won't buy an amp because of it's opamps. I'll just listen and decide if I like it's characteristics, not caring about what components are used. I mean, who cares what's used if it sounds good? That's the bottom line isn't it? It can have all the boutique parts in the world, but if it sounds like crap, nobody will buy/listen to it.

Also, your circuit design plays a large role in hiss or other noise characteristics. It's how some amps with the same amount of batteries (2 9v, 4 AAs, etc), gain and opamps can sound noisy-er than others. It's not so much power and wattage, as it is circuit design. And you have other designs that even further reduce the already low noise by having a separate psu, etc.

 

[AlwaysAFan]

Honestly I was in the exact same position as you..

I thought... why on earth would I go buy a headphone amp. Doesn't it already come with whatever I'm playing with?

The truth is, the sound quality you get from an amp is just incredible. You can hear every note, key stroke, back up singer... its VERY impressive and honestly the best way you can learn from it is to try and see the difference for yourself.

I bought a cute beyond and let my girlfriend listen. She was like you, her reply was "I don't really hear a big difference".

So what I did is I went to download one of her favorite songs and I let her listen again. It was funny to watch the look on her face. She heard parts of the song she NEVER heard before on any stereo or system. It was an instant sell. So my best advice, give it a try and try it with music you know and love. That's the true test. I'd also suggest going with a company that has a good return policy, so if you are not happy you can easily just send it back. That's what I did and ... well.... they'd have to prye it back from me

Best of luck! Welcome to the "dark side" ROFL

 

[superdog]

What about buying something like this ExpressCard Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme Audio Notebook SB0710EF - Sound Blaster - Your Music and Movies. Way Better. for his laptop. Would that improve the sound quality from the laptops optical out (S/PDIF) ? Because I am in the same situation and was wondering if that would be good in terms of sound quality?