[KillerPotato]

So I've been using my DT 770 pro 80s for almost a couple years now unamped straight out of either an x-fi or laptop soundcard, despite the persistent recommendations for use of an amp with these cans. I've been satisfied with the bass in games and most music, but because of all these recommendations for the use of an amp, I'm irritated in thinking that I'm not exploiting the beyer's full potential.

But I'm still having trouble justifying the purchase of an amplifier. Shouldn't an amplifier just allow you to increase the volume via providing more power to the headphones? I'm far more than happy with the volume the beyers can reach under straight laptop power, and the bass is still punchy and enjoyable. Why is it that the use of an amp would improve the bass power rather than just make the entire sound louder? Why is it that a battery powered amp could provide this potential power that my wall-powered laptop sound card couldn't?

Second guessing aside, can anyone suggest an affordable amp that would show me noticeable improvement in the sound quality (I'm mostly hoping for more punchy bass, but I'm generally oblivious to the benefits of an amp), cheap enough that I won't regret the purchase if I'm not wholly satisfied (say around 70-100), but noticeable enough that I'll be content to stick with what I've got for a while. Is there an amp that matches such a sweet spot and synchronizes well with the beyers? If anyone can help out, thanks for reading my long post.

 

[greggf]

=DUCK!=

Seriously, though, people who can answer your question in technical terms - which I can't do - are bound to respond to your question.

I can't tell you why it's so, but trust me, as a DT770-80 owner and owner of many amps in the past, they will sound better amped, although I'm not sure about with a $70 portable. In general, the 770 is easier than some to drive, so any difference will be small compared to, say, a Senn HDxxx.

Also, a search will turn up lots of threads on your question.

 

[FallenAngel]

Amps do not just provide louder volumes (voltage gain), they also provide more current for the headphones (current gain) which allows them to be driven to their potential.

When you're saying that you listen to it out of your X-Fi, there is already a headphone/line amp in there, but it's not as good as a standalone amp you can get.

Best amp I can recommend is the Pimeta, sure, everybody jumps on the "latest design" amp Mini3 and yes, it is a great portable amp, but I have a sweet spot for a Pimeta, especially with LMH6321 buffers, fantastic bang/buck, simply the best bang/buck amp I can think of (except the PPAS, but those aren't currently available, so good luck finding one, and if you do, let me know as well

).

 

[nor_spoon]

An amp is more about dynamics, control, authority, transients, depth and so on... Gives you control over the whole soundscape.
Not about getting louder output.

Arrest me if I'm wrong.

 

[tfarney]

If you're perfectly content with the sound you're getting without an amp, be content. This is not a contest.

Tim

 

[KillerPotato]

I'm starting to get a better picture now, but I have difficulty understanding how most of these amps can give you control over the soundscape when all they have is a volume knob. The source of my confusion comes from the fact that an amplifier generally just takes a signal and outputs it with more power.

For recommendations though, I don't really need something portable. If it were portable, I would probably have it plugged into an AC adapter 100% of the time. Also, I don't have access to my computer w/ the X-fi anymore, so I would be using my laptop as the source most of the time. I'll look into the pimeta (i recall mister_x on the hardocp forums was making them for a while, idk about anymore), but if anyone has any more recommendations, I'd greatly appreciate it. I'm really just looking for something affordable, but with noticable enough benefit that I won't be itching to upgrade too soon.

 

[poo]

I would do something more with the DAC before an amp (though in reality there aren't many DACs you could add without the need for an amp after it...)

1212m DAC is not the device so many seem to tout it as IMO. Don't get me wrong - it's a great device from many points of view - I still use one myself for other duties... but never for its' abilities as a DAC.

Depends on your main objective for sound. You have mentioned gaming in a way that suggests it is more important (or at least as important) as music. Very different fields IMO...

 

[DefectiveAudioComponent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KillerPotato /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm starting to get a better picture now, but I have difficulty understanding how most of these amps can give you control over the soundscape when all they have is a volume knob. The source of my confusion comes from the fact that an amplifier generally just takes a signal and outputs it with more power.

It does not give *you* better control over the soundscape, *the amp* controls it better. The only way to really understand it is to hear it. As I explained in another thread, just placing a cheap ($65) tube mic amp between the mac book pro and the headphones provided snappier bass, at equal volume.

When you have listened, you can decide for yourself whether you care about the difference. This is one of these things in life, like sex, that has to be experienced to be fully understood.

 

[ZephyrSapphire]

Well you could start of with a Headroom Total Bithead which is a DAC and Amp combined. There's no point having a good amp if the source is bad, as some audiophiles would say.

But yeah. It made an obvious difference to me when I connected my laptop soundcard to an amp rather than connecting my headphones directly to the soundcard. SIGNIFICANT difference.

It all comes down to you anyways.

 

[Manny Calavera]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZephyrSapphire /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well you could start of with a Headroom Total Bithead which is a DAC and Amp combined. There's no point having a good amp if the source is bad, as some audiophiles would say. But yeah. It made an obvious difference to me when I connected my laptop soundcard to an amp rather than connecting my headphones directly to the soundcard. SIGNIFICANT difference. It all comes down to you anyways.

Good suggestion,and they are a bargain for the price they sell at.

 

[nor_spoon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DefectiveAudioComponent /img/forum/go_quote.gif It does not give *you* better control over the soundscape, *the amp* controls it better.

Yes, that's what I meant. You'll have to excuse me. English is not my first language.

 

[oicdn]

As stated several times, amps don't just provide volume, they provide the "proper" current to drive your headphones to their best, or atleast, close to it.

It really depends on your source and cans used. If you're using KSC75s, of course the DAP or whatever internal sources amp is, will be able to drive those headphones closer to their full capacity/ability. Whereas with your DT770's, even though they're 80ohmers and easy to drive, ohms are sort of a false indicator of ability to drive. Grado's are a perfect example. Grados CAN be run to loud leaves out of an iPod, but they're not driven "PROPERLY". Just get something like a Hornet and the difference between your HP out and the line out to Hornet will be a HUGE difference and it will definitly open your eyes...

Now, whether or not you feel the price to purchase the amp to acheive the SQ is worth it is up to you...but the difference is there, and it is infact VERY noticeable (from an ipod atleast).

 

[tfarney]

A) For most laptops, the Total Bithead, at $140, is probably a great recommendation, because most laptops have a lot of noise and cheap op amps that will just degrade the signal on its way to your amp. The Bithead takes the digital signal directly from you computer and converts it to analog with its own DAC (digital/analog converter) before amplifying, bi-passing all of the above. It's a bargain at $140.

B) If you buy a portable (probably your best buy), use the batteries instead of the wall wart. A cheap AC power supply will just add noise. The batteries are actually better.

C) Seriously, the audiophile world is filled with people who buy/sell/collect, spending thousands of dollars they could be putting into music, pursuing a holy grail of sound that is always one more acquisition away. If you think you can get a simple amp and enjoy the benefits, go for it. But if you're happy enough now and you have demonstrated any of the afroementioned tendencies in any other hobby or endeavor, but the buying/selling/collecting itself is not the source of your bliss, turn and walk away right now.

Tim

 

[manaox2]

If you run an amp from a source, you can keep the volume level at or near line level (the full volume before it becomes amped with distortion) and use an amp to retain the full quality that may be ruined by the lesser amp in another device (especially portables). Many amps have better then stock components that can widen the distance between sounds, allow more specific imaging (illusion of location sounds originate from), increase or tighten bass or even decrease bass to fit tastes, and provide enough current draw to maximize the potential of your phones as has been stated. This is usually because of the limitations of the stock amp.

So whether you realize it or not, your already using an amp, so you should likely believe in it. I second the advice to stick with the one you have if your happy with it. Not liking equipment is the biggest distraction from enjoying music, don't get sucked into pretending its a catch-22. (to want better equipment, you have to enjoy the music, but to enjoy the music, you need better equipment)

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

I'm starting to get a better picture now, but I have difficulty understanding how most of these amps can give you control over the soundscape when all they have is a volume knob. The source of my confusion comes from the fact that an amplifier generally just takes a signal and outputs it with more power.

Im not electrician, but this is how I understood.

Ideally yes. Amplifier should ONLY amplify the line-out signal to listenable levels. However, it isnt easy without degrading soundquality, distortion and so on, since it is altering the signal afterall... "A wire with gain" should it be, but it isnt that simple, hence there are many different amplifier circuit designs, from opamp based to discrete and so forth, some being more transparent (ideal amplifier) and others having their own sound signature. (not ideal, but sometimes work as system synergy matching) This is the volume and sound signature side. They might give enough volume sometimes, but they arent clean sounding on higher loads. They might even distort on worst-case scenarios.

And amplifier should also deliver enough current and fast enough so the speaker (or in this case headphone) can play the sound as it should. Mostly this shows in producing less confused and tighter sound with more clarity. Sometimes its night and day, sometimes its subtle depending on headphone and the power they need. And again, different amp designs have different current and voltage feeding abilities. Simple designs like in majority of soundcards are not always good, but not always bad either. Dedicated amplifier is always dedicated amplifier though. And DAPs are powered by small and weak, and this gives limitations how good amplifier designs can it have built-in, without making it run out of batteries fast. Dedicated portable amplifiers are used to improve this with their better amplifier design powered by better powersource.