iFi Zen Stream: Setup, Tips, Tricks...

[SiF123]

I have a simple use case for the ZS - using it as a Tidal Connect bridge to my DAC over wifi. But I have exactly the same issues as others, with frequent disconnections, and an inability to re-connect. I have tried all of the fixes described so far in this forum, but to no avail. As an ex-software engineer I couldn't help but try to localise the issue.

I used the Tidal app. Now, it isn't a connection issue as the other Chromecast devices are seen, albeit the list may take a few seconds to populate. The ZS connection can take 10 minutes to appear. Frequently, on trying to connect, it has a go and times out. A number of attempts are then required. This suggest that ZS is not responding to peer-to-peer requests, or is heavily loaded (doing what, it is a powerful processor!).

I used different android and iOS devices to see if it was the OS stack or chipset implementations, such as low-power modes. Still didn't work.

I tried the DNS settings to 8.8.8.8. Didn't work, and couldn't see how it would affect it anyway.

Turned everything off on the ZS, including queued playlists to see if it was a processor loading or memory issue. Still didn't work.

Tried a wired connection to a wifi repeater. Still didn't work.

However, when trying to connect directly via wifi (mode 1) it frequently STILL fails to connect. This suggests that it isn't the Tidal app that is the issue.

It is definitely the ZS not loading the network stack, or managing the request thread from a peer, either through prioritisation or because of processor overload. Others have made the same comment a long time ago and it should have been addressed by now.

Given that this is a fundamental aspect of its design, why hadn't it been tested before it was sold! Even in my simple use case, I have spotted a number of other software-related issues, and, combined with 57 pages of bug-reports above, in my experience such flaky software is down to poor software design, poor development discipline and a lack of quality and testing.

So when are iFi going to stop the development of new products and divert focus into getting a new software issue released?

Well, after more experimentation in trying to isolate the problem I thought that I had solved it as I went a few days in Mode 1 without issues. But nope, it goes back to its true form and fails to retain connection for more than a few songs.

I raised a support call with iFi and had the usual 'it is a Tidal problem and we are working hard to resolve' even though here is plenty of other direct evidence that it is the ZS. And the thing is full of bugs. Given that these problems have been evident for at least a year and there has been no effort on iFi's part to resolve, we can only conclude that they have abandoned the ZS, not making them a credible company let alone technically competent.

Honestly, how can they release such a pile of s**t.

So, if you are coming here to share and pick up some advice on using the ZS, here is some: DO NOT BUY AS IT CANNOT RETAIN CONNECTION OVER WIFI, EVEN THOUGH THAT IS ITS PRIMARY FUNCTION. Unless you want to spend £400 on a door stop.

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

Well, after more experimentation in trying to isolate the problem I thought that I had solved it as I went a few days in Mode 1 without issues. But nope, it goes back to its true form and fails to retain connection for more than a few songs.

I raised a support call with iFi and had the usual 'it is a Tidal problem and we are working hard to resolve' even though here is plenty of other direct evidence that it is the ZS. And the thing is full of bugs. Given that these problems have been evident for at least a year and there has been no effort on iFi's part to resolve, we can only conclude that they have abandoned the ZS, not making them a credible company let alone technically competent.

Honestly, how can they release such a pile of s**t.

So, if you are coming here to share and pick up some advice on using the ZS, here is some: DO NOT BUY AS IT CANNOT RETAIN CONNECTION OVER WIFI, EVEN THOUGH THAT IS ITS PRIMARY FUNCTION. Unless you want to spend £400 on a door stop.

Sorry that you are still having issues, I am at a loss to help you with the WiFi issue as when I use my other unit I never have a "loss" of WiFi.

In terms of Tidal having issues occasionally this is well documented on other threads regarding drops or not working on occasion, even in the Wiim Mini forum they have just recently posted about "Tidal issues". I know this is no consolation but it is a problem that pops up from time to time.

Cheers!!

 

[Snach]

I have no problems with wifi on Zen Stream. I transfer files even DSD from NAS, Qobuz and Tidal works via Roon without any problems. But from my experience a clear picture emerges. If you want a stable streamer you need to take care:
1. a fast and stable internet connection
2. a good router and optimally set to the 5ghz band.
3. The simpler the path the less problems.

 

[twrr]

This device need serious volumio update, nothing less, nothing more.
They'd rather pay people to defend them on forums than to do the job properly.

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

This device need serious volumio update, nothing less, nothing more.
They'd rather pay people to defend them on forums than to do the job properly.

Ok, I give...

Could you please take your insulting tone to the main thread, even while working behind the scenes without your knowledge to rectify "your" issue for you, you continue to insult iFi in what is a Thread I started on my own accord and not because I get "Paid" by them.

Many Many people do not have "your" particular issue, and honestly, it's tiresome reading the same thing over and over, perhaps in this thread you will find someone who also has a gazillion files crammed onto a drive that can be of assistance to you.

I have no issue with you looking for help on problems, I do have an issue with the "Tone" of the posts and insults you are using here, I prefer not to use the ignore function, but if I must just to avoid the same posts of no value over and over again, I will.

Thank you, here is a link to the Main thread...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio-zen-stream-streaming-elevated-to-a-higher-plane.958391/

Cheers!!

 

[twrr]

It's tiring to read your constant attempts to fix bugs that keep repeating (not just me), influence your fellow software developers to finally do something and end this never ending story with a device that could be good

 

[SiF123]

Sorry that you are still having issues, I am at a loss to help you with the WiFi issue as when I use my other unit I never have a "loss" of WiFi.

In terms of Tidal having issues occasionally this is well documented on other threads regarding drops or not working on occasion, even in the Wiim Mini forum they have just recently posted about "Tidal issues". I know this is no consolation but it is a problem that pops up from time to time.

Cheers!!

Mr Bubba. I think that the point that I and other contributors have made is that your defence uses google searches to evidence a confirmation bias, instead of listening to the evidence presented by those who obviously have a greater scientific and engineering background. For instance, as I have said, I have connectivity issues when NOT using Tidal, but a fact that you ignore.

And I have brilliant wifi - we frequently stream 4K across a number of TVs in the house with ZERO issues. I also have ZERO issues with other devices that rely on wifi. I recognise that this hasn't always been the case, but devices nowadays are pretty stable.

I personally have experience in software systems for over 30 years, albeit in the complex domain of aerospace and defence. These tend to be of high quality and deterministic. Where I see the nature of the issues that are reported around the ZS, I know that the development environment is poor such that these issues manifest themselves in the delivered products. Others on here have also offered their professional insights. Reputations are easily lost through poor software quality. For instance, someone is selling a ZS on ebay for parts, at great loss, due to connectivity issues. They will not be buying another iFi product.

So this message needs to get through to the iFi development team. Plenty of sound advice and detailed problem reports has been provided over these 62 pages. I suggest that they get professional help in maturing their development organisation, invest in some knowledge and improve their test environments. The fact that they haven't done this suggests that they no longer care for the product, or that there is a systemic hardware or quality issue that would cost them to recall and replace.

Cheers.

 

[iFi audio]

So this message needs to get through to the iFi development team. Plenty of sound advice and detailed problem reports has been provided over these 62 pages. I suggest that they get professional help in maturing their development organisation, invest in some knowledge and improve their test environments. The fact that they haven't done this suggests that they no longer care for the product, or that there is a systemic hardware or quality issue that would cost them to recall and replace.

Thank you for your feedback, it's highly appreciated! Our R&D is well aware of the feedback here, so thanks to everyone involved. I will say however that most issues described in this thread affect a very small group of people in the grand scale, as in: considering how many ZEN Stream units are out there. Prior to fixing any bugs our R&D needs to make sure that any firmware updates will make products in the field stable.

All and any issues should thus be reported to our support platform. Any repeating problems explained there are passed to our R&D team that can eventually fix what needs fixing. Thanks!

 

[AnotherBrick]

As for myself, using my extensive 40 years in the IT world (global finance and American defence), I spent the last few days trying everything I could to replicate twrrp's issues. Nothing I've tried has accomplished that and short of getting a copy of his SD card, I doubt I will be able to get it to not work. Even though I'm just an unpaid netizen, I was intrigued by the initial challenge, The repetitious whining of the same few has made me loose interest in the topic (as well as this thread, I'm sorry to say, which was supposed to be for setup, tips and tricks - not praise or criticism) as it works for me and most others. In my case (on my NTFS formatted drive, I'm showing 1301 artists/ 2265 albums/27922 tracks.


Thanks @iFi audio. I think it's a great product.

 

[iFi audio]

Thanks @iFi audio. I think it's a great product.

Thank you and enjoy

 

[twrr]

As for myself, using my extensive 40 years in the IT world (global finance and American defence), I spent the last few days trying everything I could to replicate twrrp's issues. Nothing I've tried has accomplished that and short of getting a copy of his SD card, I doubt I will be able to get it to not work. Even though I'm just an unpaid netizen, I was intrigued by the initial challenge, The repetitious whining of the same few has made me loose interest in the topic (as well as this thread, I'm sorry to say, which was supposed to be for setup, tips and tricks - not praise or criticism) as it works for me and most others. In my case (on my NTFS formatted drive, I'm showing 1301 artists/ 2265 albums/27922 tracks.

To any or all trolls and haters (yes, I truly believe you're out there), feel free to criticize this post and defend your position. As for me, I'm going radio silent. I may sign back on to head-fi in the future but I doubt I'll be back here.

Thanks @iFi audio. I think it's a great product.

So you say that you don't want to participate anymore because someone else is having problems?

All the advice I got was to format the dis to fat32 or exfat and it works normally for you on ntfs. There's no difference with me either, but that says more about user support and paid forum members that they don't even know what they're talking about and what's going on with the device. As far as I can see, it is obvious that there are several series of devices, some of which work normally and some of which are garbage like mine.

 

[Mr BubbaHyde]

Mr Bubba. I think that the point that I and other contributors have made is that your defence uses google searches to evidence a confirmation bias, instead of listening to the evidence presented by those who obviously have a greater scientific and engineering background. For instance, as I have said, I have connectivity issues when NOT using Tidal, but a fact that you ignore.

And I have brilliant wifi - we frequently stream 4K across a number of TVs in the house with ZERO issues. I also have ZERO issues with other devices that rely on wifi. I recognise that this hasn't always been the case, but devices nowadays are pretty stable.

I personally have experience in software systems for over 30 years, albeit in the complex domain of aerospace and defence. These tend to be of high quality and deterministic. Where I see the nature of the issues that are reported around the ZS, I know that the development environment is poor such that these issues manifest themselves in the delivered products. Others on here have also offered their professional insights. Reputations are easily lost through poor software quality. For instance, someone is selling a ZS on ebay for parts, at great loss, due to connectivity issues. They will not be buying another iFi product.

So this message needs to get through to the iFi development team. Plenty of sound advice and detailed problem reports has been provided over these 62 pages. I suggest that they get professional help in maturing their development organisation, invest in some knowledge and improve their test environments. The fact that they haven't done this suggests that they no longer care for the product, or that there is a systemic hardware or quality issue that would cost them to recall and replace.

Cheers.

I am sorry that you feel I have not listened to your specific example, I don't (personally) believe that's the case and I am sure that anyone who would like to is capable of going back and seeing your posts and my responses in their proper context.

While reading your post I thought that perhaps there is something wrong with your antenna, (longshot) but still a checkable option for you.

I thought you were exclusively using Tidal, as to which I stand by my statement of it in itself being a bit "buggy" at times, I am simply pointing to evidence of this fact on many different platforms. I got this thinking from your first post here...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-zen-stream-setup-tips-tricks.961425/post-17463430

So again my apologies for the Misunderstanding.

I would like to briefly address this constant referral by "newish" posters to this thread about my now "working" for iFi by again saying I spent almost 2 full years here helping folks try to resolve issues in the Main thread here...

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio-zen-stream-streaming-elevated-to-a-higher-plane.958391/

And also please try to remember you are visiting and posting on a "Sponsored Forum" so of course there are going to be folks here from all forum sponsors trying to help or answer questions. As others have mentioned, this thread was created for Setup, Tips, Tricks for the Zen Stream, the Main thread would be a much better place for the posting of issues and also has way more info and users than this one.

For anyone not getting what they feel to be the "proper resolution of an issue" please file a support ticket from the @iFi audio website to seek resolution for those issues.

https://support.ifi-audio.com/

Going forward as I hope we all can, I will no longer respond to any posts I feel are not in the spirit of the thread, and I thank all of the folks who have stood behind me both publicly and in PM's of support, I greatly appreciate this!

Cheers!!

 

[iFi audio]

For anyone not getting what they feel to be the "proper resolution of an issue" please file a support ticket from the @iFi audio website to seek resolution for those issues.

Thank you @Mr BubbaHyde. Our support line is the direct route and we encourage everyone who is experiencing issues to report them there, thanks!

 

[bagwell359]

This one?

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio-zen-stream-streaming-elevated-to-a-higher-plane.958391/

No. In the Neo thread I wrote in 9/22:

Just as with the Zen stream, this bleeding edge product is using its initial customer base as beta testers. Cool when you're bought into that.

But as a user now into the later half of my 60's - no thank you. I'll ride my v40 until it's dead, then see what the velocity of complaints vs solutions is at. I'm hopeful - inside of year it'll be relatively stable or the Zen will be upgraded and stable (OK, six months after release of the Zen).

The value proposition with this brand is high but don't be fooled - part of the savings is by passing testing costs on to consumers. Software since the mid 1980's has many examples of this - from M$, Apple, Sun, Red Hat, Mentor Graphics, and so many more - in fact I can't think of a substantial software brand that this is not true for in my professional experience.

Damn insightful if I do say so myself. My V40 became unusable and 3 months later took my shot. For a guy that was one of the first 20k users of Arpanet (what was before the internet) hope overcame experience. Pity.

I'm out on this product.

 

[iFi audio]

I'm out on this product.

Thank you for your feedback and also for giving ZEN Stream a try.