[Vergil]

@iFi audio

Hi, can you help me out? I used to have a Micro iDSD BL, but after listening to some really high end stuff like the Luxman DA series I felt that my Micro iDSD BL sounded thin, harsh and congested so I was looking for an upgrade. Funnily I figured out that the iDAC2 despite its low price was exactly what I was looking for. So I bought one about a month ago. I also want to get my hands on a Micro iUSB3.

While I do not intend to upgrade the digital part of the audio chain any further, I do want a more "tubey" sounding amp for my Beyer T1 2nd gen. I came across this product (iTube2) and to be honest I just don't understand why this product exists. In all the reviews people are using it with an ss amp and they claim the sound became smoother, less fatiguing, less "digital" sounding. In other words it's exactly what I'm looking for. However that raises the question, instead of softening up an ss amp that the listener finds to be too harsh, why not just buy a thick, heavy sounding tube amp like the Feliks Elise? Why buy a workaround when you can buy the solution? Why add flavor to a system you don't like instead of building the system you do?

 

[hamachan]

@iFi audio

Hi, can you help me out? I used to have a Micro iDSD BL, but after listening to some really high end stuff like the Luxman DA series I felt that my Micro iDSD BL sounded thin, harsh and congested so I was looking for an upgrade. Funnily I figured out that the iDAC2 despite its low price was exactly what I was looking for. So I bought one about a month ago. I also want to get my hands on a Micro iUSB3.

While I do not intend to upgrade the digital part of the audio chain any further, I do want a more "tubey" sounding amp for my Beyer T1 2nd gen. I came across this product (iTube2) and to be honest I just don't understand why this product exists. In all the reviews people are using it with an ss amp and they claim the sound became smoother, less fatiguing, less "digital" sounding. In other words it's exactly what I'm looking for. However that raises the question, instead of softening up an ss amp that the listener finds to be too harsh, why not just buy a thick, heavy sounding tube amp like the Feliks Elise? Why buy a workaround when you can buy the solution? Why add flavor to a system you don't like instead of building the system you do?

Try ifi's iCan Pro, which is the best to couple with iDAC2 + iUSB3.0.

 

[Vergil]

Try ifi's iCan Pro, which is the best to couple with iDAC2 + iUSB3.0.

Thx for the input but that amp has a long list of features I do not need, including 14W balanced output, switchable ss / tube mode, low impedance, 3d, x-bass. Sound signature is also said to be neutral. For someone who has lots of different headphones and iems, the Pro iDSD and Pro iCan seems like a good option, however I'm not one of those people.

 

[iFi audio]

Why buy a workaround when you can buy the solution? Why add flavor to a system you don't like instead of building the system you do?

Because one doen't always know precisely what he or she is after, a solution you speak of not always is known from the get go, many hardware choices are made along the road and tastes change. Many people already commited to a certain SS chain might want to try something different without getting rid of anything they own for example. We don't consider iTube2 as a workaround but an option to go with if you're in mood for some tubes somewhere in your setup

 

[Vergil]

Because one doen't always know precisely what he or she is after, a solution you speak of not always is known from the get go, many hardware choices are made along the road and tastes change. Many people already commited to a certain SS chain might want to try something different without getting rid of anything they own for example. We don't consider iTube2 as a workaround but an option to go with if you're in mood for some tubes somewhere in your setup

thx, so the iTube2 is basically the Micro lineup's ss / tube switch, but instead of an actual switch like on the Pro, with the Micro you add / remove the iTube2 from the chain for a more / less tubey sound (the device itself also has multiple modes). I guess it makes sense for people who already invested a lot in players, dacs, amps, phones and/or speakers and want new possibilities with the gear they already have.

So If I got it right, when building a new setup from scratch the iUSB3 objectively makes things better, but the iTube2 is not needed if you can get perfect synergy with the amp alone. Eg. the iTube2 would come in handy if I had a warm planar + neutral ss setup and bought bright dynamic headphones (T1 / HD800) as a second pair, but since that's not the case and I can optimize the entire chain for my T1, I shouldn't be looking at the iTube2. In other words this would be enough for an endgame setup: iUSB3 > iDAC2 > Feliks Elise or Feliks Euforia (these are state of the art OTL tube amps) > Beyer T1.2

Unfortunately here in Hungary we don't have the luxury to try out iFi products before buying. After reading stuff online I came to the conclusion that the iUSB3 + iDAC2 (I already have the latter) would be a killer setup despite the low price and while iFi has a lot of cool stuff other than these two, in my personal case they are not needed. But then I haven't tried out any of these, that's why I'm asking for your advice

 

[hamachan]

thx, so the iTube2 is basically the Micro lineup's ss / tube switch, but instead of an actual switch like on the Pro, with the Micro you add / remove the iTube2 from the chain for a more / less tubey sound (the device itself also has multiple modes). I guess it makes sense for people who already invested a lot in players, dacs, amps, phones and/or speakers and want new possibilities with the gear they already have.

So If I got it right, when building a new setup from scratch the iUSB3 objectively makes things better, but the iTube2 is not needed if you can get perfect synergy with the amp alone. Eg. the iTube2 would come in handy if I had a warm planar + neutral ss setup and bought bright dynamic headphones (T1 / HD800) as a second pair, but since that's not the case and I can optimize the entire chain for my T1, I shouldn't be looking at the iTube2. In other words this would be enough for an endgame setup: iUSB3 > iDAC2 > Feliks Elise or Feliks Euforia (these are state of the art OTL tube amps) > Beyer T1.2

Unfortunately here in Hungary we don't have the luxury to try out iFi products before buying. After reading stuff online I came to the conclusion that the iUSB3 + iDAC2 (I already have the latter) would be a killer setup despite the low price and while iFi has a lot of cool stuff other than these two, in my personal case they are not needed. But then I haven't tried out any of these, that's why I'm asking for your advice

My chain is iUSB3.0 nano > iDAC2 micro > iCan Pro. Adding iCan Pro was great step up and I am satisfying this set up so far. I do not need 14,000W power since my cans are easy to drive and even I do not have balanced cable but still beneficial.

 

[iFi audio]

the iUSB3 objectively makes things better, but the iTube2 is not needed if you can get perfect synergy with the amp alone.

We strongly think that our iUSB3.0 is capable of objectively improving vast majority of USB connections between transports and DACs out there. If one feeds his/hers DAC directly from a computer of any sort, namely without any USB sorters, that's the ideal usage scenario for iUSB3.0.

iTube2 is different. One has to be on board with the idea of injecting tube buffering into his/hers chain. What happens later, we don't know as its related to a specific setup. But also iTube2 is more than just a buffer, it can also work as a preamplifier.

 

[Bansaku]

We strongly think that our iUSB3.0 is capable of objectively improving vast majority of USB connections between transports and DACs out there. If one feeds his/hers DAC directly from a computer of any sort, namely without any USB sorters, that's the ideal usage scenario for iUSB3.0.

Absolutely! Even though my xDSD has built-in iPurifier technology, it greatly benefits from having the iPurifier3 in the chain!

 

[Vergil]

My chain is iUSB3.0 nano > iDAC2 micro > iCan Pro. Adding iCan Pro was great step up and I am satisfying this set up so far. I do not need 14,000W power since my cans are easy to drive and even I do not have balanced cable but still beneficial.

I'm sure it sounds awesome, but buying a $1800 amp only to use half of the internals is not great value.

We strongly think that our iUSB3.0 is capable of objectively improving vast majority of USB connections between transports and DACs out there. If one feeds his/hers DAC directly from a computer of any sort, namely without any USB sorters, that's the ideal usage scenario for iUSB3.0.

iTube2 is different. One has to be on board with the idea of injecting tube buffering into his/hers chain. What happens later, we don't know as its related to a specific setup. But also iTube2 is more than just a buffer, it can also work as a preamplifier.

Okay, Micro iUSB3.0 it is then

 

[iFi audio]

I'm sure it sounds awesome, but buying a $1800 amp only to use half of the internals is not great value.

Due to running iCAN Pro in SE?

 

[Vergil]

Due to running iCAN Pro in SE?

Technically speaking current does flow through most of the components, but what I'm trying to say is that the Pro iCan was designed with use cases in mind that do not concern "simple" users. It's kinda like the desktop version of iDSD BL in a way that It's a great device if you need all those features. However if you only need a few, then you can get a better deal by looking for something that specializes in those departments. Like how the iDAC2 is both cheaper and better than the iDSD BL if you only need usb in, rca out.

 

[iFi audio]

Technically speaking current does flow through most of the components, but what I'm trying to say is that the Pro iCan was designed with use cases in mind that do not concern "simple" users. It's kinda like the desktop version of iDSD BL in a way that It's a great device if you need all those features. However if you only need a few, then you can get a better deal by looking for something that specializes in those departments. Like how the iDAC2 is both cheaper and better than the iDSD BL if you only need usb in, rca out.

We wouldn't compare Pro iCAN to iDSD BL in the way you do. The BL was designed to be a portable do-it-all solution (it's as much a DAC as a headphone amp and then some!) and it's been doing really good we believe.

However Pro iCAN is a headphone amp in the first place. A rather unique one due to its three operation modes, various outputs etc., but all these extra features don't turn it into something it's not in the first place.

 

[Berdugo]

Hello @iFi audio , is a balanced version of the iTube 2 in the works by any chance ?

 

[iFi audio]

Hello @iFi audio , is a balanced version of the iTube 2 in the works by any chance ?

If we don't say a thing about such a product, we have nothing new to say on the subject.

 

[One and a half]

Two years after purchasing, initially not all that impressed with the performance of the iTube2 from memory now a distinct increase in distortion. Maybe it wasn't burned in properly, every now and again, the iTube2 was resurrected but it didn't work out. Never mind, last night I watched the TechMoan video on the Chifi buffer tube amp. The presenter was gushing over the sound of the warmth of tubes, so why not give the iTube2 another shot.

The iTube2 was wired in the unbalanced tape loop, and couldn't program it for 0db buffering, had to switch to 9db pre-amp mode to match levels correctly. Rest of the settings were 'flat'. The iPower 15V supply was used. Once the levels were the same (by ear) on HD800S, there was a shift in the sound stage when listening to the digital chain. After a few attempts on different material, conformed the difference in the sound stage, but at 2230 it was not practical to launch the speakers to find out how the sound stage changed. Tonality was not much in it, but was obscured by that image problem.

Playing Michael Jackson's Thriller (EPIC - ES 38112 from 1999) which has great sound stage depth and height on speakers, the differences were readily apparent. The height of vocals dropped some 150mm, and the depth affected, but couldn't judge that accurately, but very noticeable in a direct A/B. I'm not sure if different cables will help, there's timing problems here that some cables could fix, but hazard a guess, they would be more than the iTube2 costs. With the iTube2 surface temperature around 30C , currently is placed on a coffee coaster from ceramics. In the winter it's not so bad, but summer would be a different situation.

Not a fan of the iPower supply, having replaced it with a linear supply for the micro3 USB with great results, thinking is the timing between channels could improve and therefore the image could be closer to the 'original'. Will dig out an alternative supply and give it a shot.

Later report:

OK, changed the iPower to a variable DC bench (SMPS) supply, some 5A, 1mV ripple set for 15V. Well the height was returned, but the image, very strange now. Vocals in the middle, and everything else left or right, so where's the music from centre to left, and centre to right...? Just gone. So with a 'real' linear supply, it's possible to return the missing information, but to be confirmed. for those wish to know in pre-amp mode, current draw is 400 mA at 15 V. ifi advise that the itube2 can run from a 12V supply probably 500 mA.

I feel there's already too much effort to discover how to wring out the best out of the iTube2. If anyone wishes to take this further, a linear supply like a Keces, Teddy Pardo, Acopian would be one way forward. Icing on the cake would be 'classier' interconnects from the Nordost Blue Heaven family, or the red Wireworld types would bring some extra results to discover that extra piece of info. The PSU and the cables are a significant cost, but if these are already about, then have a shot.

Gear:
Supermicro Win2016, Roon, JCAT Net Femto Ethernet card
Lumin U1
Accuphase DC-950 DAC
Accuphase C-2420 Pre-amp
Accuphase AL-10 interconnects
Accuphase P-4200 Power amp
KEF 205/2 speakers
Sennheiser HD800S