[Thorsten Loesch]

@elira Thanks for posting it. IMHO this is very odd product, especially now when MQA is basically out of business and better volume pot should be implemented long time ago, in fact from the very beginning. Out of all my ifi amp/dacs Signature has the biggest channel imbalance issue

There is a little story to this.

The problem with the volume is it being 2-track and having a power switch. It was a rather good sounding volume control.

After discussing with potentiometer factory (set up by the people who supposedly were behind the "Noble" brand) the solution, after many complaints was to select the potentiometers in the assembly factory, the factory would charge more per pot, send extra units to cover rejects and take the rejects back.

I designed a suitable test setup easy to use and wrote a testing process that was translated into chinese. The rejection rate was around 1 in 3 and the result was that iDSD micro and other products using the same pot did not have the problem any more.

Later the factory making the potentiometers asked to do the testing in house instead of iFi's assembly factory doing this, but wanted to charge more. For that they would guarantee the tracking on products received. That all happened IIRC in 2014. Then all was well and there were minimal complaints, once the units with selected potentiometers filtered into supply lines.

In 2018 the factory making the potentiomenters decided they no longer wanted to do the selection, would not guarantee the tracking and not take back rejects. Now the potentiometer is 50 Cent USD part. So I suggested to restore the selection process in house and sell off the rejects on line at or below cost (or just dispose of them as scrap). This was rejected by iFi management and that there was no problem.

This was around the time the Diablo's and Signatures went into production. The "Hip DAC" also got this Pot, even though it is essentially related to the Zen DAC/CAN etc and was originally intended to have a push-button power switch, but that was deleted.

Voila, the problem promptly returned, as I had predicted. By that time both myself and the original tech support and social media manager had left.

It would seem that someone finally remembered the old selection process... Maybe.

I got one of the Finale ones, the pot has the same channel balance issue my iDSD Black Label had years ago.

That is disappointing. With my selection process only the last 10 degrees or less, before the switch actuates should have an issue.

In reality, the original iDSD micro platform should have been replaced 5 years or so ago and would have been, had I had it my way, I wrote about a bit of this story in this post:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi...ce-done-our-way.951615/page-186#post-17667633

But hey, why invest into new designs if you can flog a dead horse?

Thor

 

[alekc]

There is a little story to this.

The problem with the volume is it being 2-track and having a power switch. It was a rather good sounding volume control.

After discussing with potentiometer factory (set up by the people who supposedly were behind the "Noble" brand) the solution, after many complaints was to select the potentiometers in the assembly factory, the factory would charge more per pot, send extra units to cover rejects and take the rejects back.

I designed a suitable test setup easy to use and wrote a testing process that was translated into chinese. The rejection rate was around 1 in 3 and the result was that iDSD micro and other products using the same pot did not have the problem any more.

Later the factory making the potentiometers asked to do the testing in house instead of iFi's assembly factory doing this, but wanted to charge more. For that they would guarantee the tracking on products received. That all happened IIRC in 2014. Then all was well and there were minimal complaints, once the units with selected potentiometers filtered into supply lines.

In 2018 the factory making the potentiomenters decided they no longer wanted to do the selection, would not guarantee the tracking and not take back rejects. Now the potentiometer is 50 Cent USD part. So I suggested to restore the selection process in house and sell off the rejects on line at or below cost (or just dispose of them as scrap). This was rejected by iFi management and that there was no problem.

This was around the time the Diablo's and Signatures went into production. The "Hip DAC" also got this Pot, even though it is essentially related to the Zen DAC/CAN etc and was originally intended to have a push-button power switch, but that was deleted.

Voila, the problem promptly returned, as I had predicted. By that time both myself and the original tech support and social media manager had left.

It would seem that someone finally remembered the old selection process... Maybe.



That is disappointing. With my selection process only the last 10 degrees or less, before the switch actuates should have an issue.

In reality, the original iDSD micro platform should have been replaced 5 years or so ago and would have been, had I had it my way, I wrote about a bit of this story in this post:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi...ce-done-our-way.951615/page-186#post-17667633

But hey, why invest into new designs if you can flog a dead horse?

Thor

@Thorsten Loesch thank you for this story. Indeed out of all micros I have: iDAC2, iCan SE, iTube2 and iDSD Signature, the Signature has the worst imbalance reaching way after 11 o'clock. Now I know why...

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

@Thorsten Loesch thank you for this story. Indeed out of all micros I have: iDAC2, iCan SE, iTube2 and iDSD Signature, the Signature has the worst imbalance reaching way after 11 o'clock. Now I know why...

iDAC 2 & iCAN SE (2) used a non-switch pot, these were mostly very good on tracking out of the box. Which is why wanted to switch the Hip DAC and all budget units still intended to use pot's for cost reasons to an alternative non-switched unit, with a push-button power solution like on Zen CAN.

Channel imbalance should become inaudible after around 9 o'Glock even with the switched pot's.

Thor

 

[Lightspeed12]

There is a little story to this.

The problem with the volume is it being 2-track and having a power switch. It was a rather good sounding volume control.

After discussing with potentiometer factory (set up by the people who supposedly were behind the "Noble" brand) the solution, after many complaints was to select the potentiometers in the assembly factory, the factory would charge more per pot, send extra units to cover rejects and take the rejects back.

I designed a suitable test setup easy to use and wrote a testing process that was translated into chinese. The rejection rate was around 1 in 3 and the result was that iDSD micro and other products using the same pot did not have the problem any more.

Later the factory making the potentiometers asked to do the testing in house instead of iFi's assembly factory doing this, but wanted to charge more. For that they would guarantee the tracking on products received. That all happened IIRC in 2014. Then all was well and there were minimal complaints, once the units with selected potentiometers filtered into supply lines.

In 2018 the factory making the potentiomenters decided they no longer wanted to do the selection, would not guarantee the tracking and not take back rejects. Now the potentiometer is 50 Cent USD part. So I suggested to restore the selection process in house and sell off the rejects on line at or below cost (or just dispose of them as scrap). This was rejected by iFi management and that there was no problem.

This was around the time the Diablo's and Signatures went into production. The "Hip DAC" also got this Pot, even though it is essentially related to the Zen DAC/CAN etc and was originally intended to have a push-button power switch, but that was deleted.

Voila, the problem promptly returned, as I had predicted. By that time both myself and the original tech support and social media manager had left.

It would seem that someone finally remembered the old selection process... Maybe.



That is disappointing. With my selection process only the last 10 degrees or less, before the switch actuates should have an issue.

In reality, the original iDSD micro platform should have been replaced 5 years or so ago and would have been, had I had it my way, I wrote about a bit of this story in this post:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi...ce-done-our-way.951615/page-186#post-17667633

But hey, why invest into new designs if you can flog a dead horse?

Thor

"Rejected by ifi management and there was no problem " But now they acknowledge there was a problem because they are using that problem to help sell the new final model.
So they are contradicting themselves.

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

But now they acknowledge there was a problem because they are using that problem to help sell the new final model.

I would suggest that acknowledge a problem with a product that you are shipping is to first of all be generous in replacements for customers that have the problem, send back their unit, which can be refurbished and sold at some money off as "open box" item without loosing money.

And secondly to rapidly solve the problem and make sure it does not happen again.

So they are contradicting themselves.

Depends on where you see the contradiction. I would say they show amazing consistency in their customer service.

Thor

 

[alekc]

At least for me the Signature is the last product from ifi, wish it would be the other way around, but it is not. Thanks to your input we all can also do an assesement of reviewers who for years somehow missed all the problems customers were reporting. This provides great value to whole audio community. Thank you @Thorsten Loesch .

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

At least for me the Signature is the last product from ifi, wish it would be the other way around, but it is not. Thanks to your input we all can also do an assesement of reviewers who for years somehow missed all the problems customers were reporting. This provides great value to whole audio community. Thank you @Thorsten Loesch .

I suspect reviewer units got checked for this before sent out.

And between ~2015 and ~2019 the problem had been solved, or at least minimised to an acceptable level.

Also, at the time competition was less intense, iFi products were less expensive, so small imperfections were easier to overlook.

Thor

 

[elig63]

Hi, I'm new to audio and apologize for my English.
I have a problem. The device is connected to the laptop using the supplied blue cable. While listening to music, the device gets very hot and turns off after about an hour. After it cools down, it continues to play again. What is the problem and what should I do?

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

Hi, I'm new to audio and apologize for my English.
I have a problem. The device is connected to the laptop using the supplied blue cable. While listening to music, the device gets very hot and turns off after about an hour. After it cools down, it continues to play again. What is the problem and what should I do?

At a guess, have you turned on "Turbo" and set iEMatch to "Ultra"? I have read some people recommending this, it is a very bad idea.

Please try the unit with iEMatch OFF, normal mode setting and if that is too loud with the volume low, use Eco and do not use iEMatch, EXCEPT with "eco" mode.

Thor

 

[elig63]

have you turned on "Turbo"

yes
Thank you very much for your help !

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

yes
Thank you very much for your help !

Turbo is entirely usable with hard to drive headphones, but it is really reserved for these. The unit will warm up considerably as consequence. But that is unlikely to shut down the unit.

You may want to check the battery level, Turbo mode drains the battery also in "Turbo". I am not sure if the Sig still charges from the USB-A input (the original and Black label that I designed did).

Even if it does, to use turbo mode it is best to plug in the USB-C power input from a suitable charger.

Thor

 

[fevers end]

Turbo is entirely usable with hard to drive headphones, but it is really reserved for these. The unit will warm up considerably as consequence. But that is unlikely to shut down the unit.

You may want to check the battery level, Turbo mode drains the battery also in "Turbo". I am not sure if the Sig still charges from the USB-A input (the original and Black label that I designed did).

Even if it does, to use turbo mode it is best to plug in the USB-C power input from a suitable charger.

Thor

I have a sig and it charges from the UBC C input.

 

[JanS]

https://ifi-audio.com/faqs/how-do-i-update-the-firmware/

The user-changeable firmware controls how the XMOS (Chip Brand) USB Audio "Bridge" works. It may be called USB Firmware, XMOS Firmware or similar. The MCU (usually STC 8051 compatible) inside that controls other functions cannot be user upgraded.

Thor

Hi,

sadly that doesn’t help (at least me)

After entering serial number you’ll see

- XMOS
- 7.2c
- 5.3c
- 5.3
- 5.2

So after reading this whole thread I still don’t know if 7.2c matches my hardware or 5.3c will.

And your reply doesn’t help for XMOS… is this another update for the same hardware but another part of it? If so, how to install that? The (lets call it) „main“ firmware comes as dmg containing an installer and installing instructions. XMOS has only a bin file in it.

So a dummy user like me can

A) install 7.2c and see if version number changes after installation
B) go with 5.3c and do the same
C) totally ignore XMOS because no instruction what to do

That’s unsatisfying and we need someone with knowledge to help.

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

- XMOS
- 7.2c

This is for units fitted with XU200 series XMOS. You should check the current version you have.

5.x is for XU100 based units
7.x is for XU200 based units

So after reading this whole thread I still don’t know if 7.2c matches my hardware or 5.3c will.

If your hardware currently has 5.xx you need to use 5.xx versions, 7.xx will not work.

If your hardware currently has 7.xx you need to use 7.xx versions, 5.xx will not work.

There are a number of posts detailing how to check the version number on different computer platforms.

I would not experiment with a potential "crossflash", it may brick the unit.

I did have flashing 5.xx onto XU200 devices tested when I was with AMR/iFi. There the flash simply failed, not bricked. I don't remember if we ever tested the reverse. But it's not worth finding out.

And your reply doesn’t help for XMOS… is this another update for the same hardware but another part of it? If so, how to install that? The (lets call it) „main“ firmware comes as dmg containing an installer and installing instructions. XMOS has only a bin file in it.

XMOS is the USB Audio "Bridge" IC. It is what connects to the computer and communicates with it and eventually spits out digital audio to be send to the DAC.

The DMG file is for Apple OSX, it is a compiled program that will flash the unit (or not). I remember doing all the work to make this work and compile on Apple, I hate Apple.

The bin file is for Windows, it needs to be used with the firmware update program called "iFiHDUSBAudio_dfuapp.exe" that was installed together with the driver.

Detailed issues, please talk to ifi's tech support.

So a dummy user like me can

A) install 7.2c and see if version number changes after installation
B) go with 5.3c and do the same
C) totally ignore XMOS because no instruction what to do

That’s unsatisfying and we need someone with knowledge to help.

Please take this up with iFi's tech support. I have nothing to do with ifi for quite a few years.

T

 

[Knee Deep In Epoxy]

Am I right in thinking the Micro iDSD Signature is now discontinued?

Glad I've got mine. I really love having the option of Xbass & 3D/XSpace for when it's to fill out some gaps from time to time.

I was looking that the ifi lineup online yesterday - the Gryphon is the Swiss army knife of portables but what's missing (IMHO) is something like the Go Bar with its own battery (bluetooth not necessary). Something with within the realms of dongle form factor that doesn't drain your phone l, but has the power, sonic performance and fun buttons on top. An ifi Colibri (or smaller) so to speak.