iFi audio iDSD Diablo - A portable reference done our way!

[Mr Vicarious]

Hmm, it may seem easy to do "just design it, put it on kickstarter or such", but starting up manufacturing a product from scratch is a serious undertaking.

Unless you order 100,000 pcs FoxCon on any other major outsourcing contract manufacturer will not talk to you.

Something like the later generation iFi products needed a team of at least two junior hardware engineers and and a senior and junior programmer to complete, test and get to production readiness.

Having a running operation with supply chains and sales channels as well as design/prototyping department and access to proven manufacturing resources (in house or contract) is a huge bonus. Combined with vision, skills and a deft hand or two in the top team this can make a big difference to the outcome.

There are a few companies who could pull his off and where I even might entertain the notion of working with them, if the offer was decent, but so far, no-one in audio lala land seems to be keen.

So while, as James 007 Bond stated "Never say never", it will not be something to happen next week or month.



Best that it is general commentary on missed opportunities and good advise not taken. In the end there is no way of knowing if the other fork in the road really would have led to better outcome.

One has good reasons to presume.and opportunity to debate the battle later. But all we know is how it actually played out and how the chips came down.

In the moment when a lot of bullets and shrapnel addressed to "Occupant" is coming downrage from the other side in your general direction, you keep your head down and decide on the spot.

Was it right or wrong? Those still around to tell tall tales of the "I first met Vassiliy nearly 30 years ago in a bar in the west African City A.... in the middle of the civil war..." probably got it more right than wrong. Of course, mostly they don't talk that much. Then again, those who got it wrong too often don't talk at all.

Thor

Unless you order 100,000 pcs FoxCon on any other major outsourcing contract manufacturer will not talk to you.

Something like the later generation iFi products needed a team of at least two junior hardware engineers and and a senior and junior programmer to complete, test and get to production readiness.

Having a running operation with supply chains and sales channels as well as design/prototyping department and access to proven manufacturing resources (in house or contract) is a huge bonus. Combined with vision, skills and a deft hand or two in the top team this can make a big difference to the outcome.

Far be it from me to give you (an industry stalwart) suggestions but you seem to be thinking that you would need to start out big in order to compete directly with the likes of ifi. Why not just start out as a (very) small independent company?

Build a prototype, set up a website, get a some professional (and amateur) reviewers to review it (with your name and reputation that shouldn't be difficult), interest grows, sell some units as a small 'boutique' HiFi manufacturer (there are plenty of those), interest grows further, funds and investment to follow, other larger manufacturers become interested, and who knows what will develop from there?

Or you could offer your design to major retailers like Drop and Apos who actively seek collaborations with designers. Apos, for example, has a programme called "Apos 𝒙" who, if they like your design (how could they refuse with your credentials?), would work with you to bring it to market (https://apos.audio/pages/apos-x).

These approaches are more modest than aiming to sell at higher volumes, which I think you're proposing, but if there's a possibility of getting your design into production, surely it's worth a try?

Or am I making this sound too simple?

Was it right or wrong? Those still around to tell tall tales of the "I first met Vassiliy nearly 30 years ago in a bar in the west African City A.... in the middle of the civil war..." probably got it more right than wrong. Of course, mostly they don't talk that much. Then again, those who got it wrong too often don't talk at all.

From what I can judge, I think you were on right side of this "battle" as the "tales" you've been telling us here bear witness. The Diablo after all was a success.

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

Far be it from me to give you (an industry stalwart) suggestions but you seem to be thinking that you would need to start out big in order to compete directly with the likes of ifi. Why not just start out as a (very) small independent company?

Build a prototype, set up a website, get a some professional (and amateur) reviewers to review it (with your name and reputation that shouldn't be difficult), interest grows, sell some units as a small 'boutique' HiFi manufacturer (there are plenty of those), interest grows further, funds and investment to follow, other larger manufacturers become interested, and who knows what will develop from there?

For iFi with an already established manufacturing base from AMR and a ready sales channel, it took 3-4 years before it was profitable

Apos, for example, has a programme called "Apos 𝒙" who, if they like your design (how could they refuse with your credentials?), would work with you to bring it to market (https://apos.audio/pages/apos-x).

This could be an option.

These approaches are more modest than aiming to sell at higher volumes, which I think you're proposing, but if there's a possibility of getting your design into production, surely it's worth a try?

Ok, say I'm making a 500 USD DAC. After retailers margins, I might get 250 bux and manufacture for 125 USD.

A lot of folks in the US make 100k a year 9-5, it's certainly not a big salary.

So I need to make and sell 1,000 DAC's a year to pay myself. That's a lot, so let's add some employees, at 100k each. Say 3. Now I need to make and sell 4ku per year.

And I probably need to put cash worth a few 100k into the venture. For a return that's the same as working a skilled job 9-5 and less than one can make as "digital nomad" from a beach in Asia.

Financially it's not attractive unless we can go big.lets say I can sell 50kU in the first year, I can probably drop cost notably below 100 USD per unit, sell for 200 and give resellers better margins. At 50ku we make 5 Million in the first year.

It needs a much bigger business so I'm not taking 5M home, but decent money for the effort and investment.

Of course, selling 50,000 pcs 500 USD DAC's per year will be difficult. But other more mainstream audio products can easily sell that or many more. So effort is better expended into that direction.

Thor