iFi audio iDSD Diablo - A portable reference done our way!

[KaOs492]

I don't have a problem with the current volume pot, I just think they should have marketed it just as a portable desktop solution for over/on ears full size cans and stated that for iems the signature is the right move

 

[BS5711]

You are the first I read that has perfectly balanced volume/balance.

Min always balance at around 10-12 oclock

Mine has a tiny range of imbalance below any useful listening level even with IEM.

Essentially inaudible at 9 o’clock and useful volume and balanced at 10 o’clock. Anything below the point of the channels just being balanced is unusably low volume even with IEM.

Of course since it is so powerful the useful range is small with IEM. With Shanling ME700 for me 10 o’clock is casual listening and 12 o’clock is very loud but usable for a short while on a really good part of a song !!

ME700 are moderately sensitive at something like 18 ohm and 106db.

That is all in eco gain from the 4.4mm, the 1/4 inch obviously is a little less powerful and a little more forgiving/user friendly.

You would hear a lot of complaining about people that have issues but not many people are going to bother posting that they don’t have any problem.

 

[BS5711]

What knob position are you at with IEMs ?

And what type of music? Classical and jazz ?

General music, not classical or jazz or anything that might be considered quiet.

Eco gain, Shanling ME700, 18 ohm and 106db, 4.4mm balanced with Fiio M11 input via USB at full output volume.

Barely audible sound right at 9 o’clock. So quiet you can’t listen to it and it is near impossible to hear if there is any imbalance it is so quiet.

Usable volume but very quiet and some imbalance just before 10 o’clock.

Usable volume, easy casual listening right around 10 o’clock and imbalance has cleared.

Very loud but short term usable at 12 o’clock.

Easy long term listening with less sensitive Letshuoer S12 planar IEM at 11 o’clock. With them there is essentially no imbalance as the volume is not really usable until somewhat past where the imbalance clears.

 

[flyte3333]

General music, not classical or jazz or anything that might be considered quiet.

I will post some photos, Eco gain, Shanling ME700, 18 ohm and 106db, 4.4mm balanced with Fiio M11 input via USB at full output volume.

1. General set up.

2. Barely audible sound right at 9 o’clock. So quiet you can’t listen to it and it is near impossible to hear if there is any imbalance it is so quiet.

3. Usable volume but very quiet and some imbalance just before 10 o’clock.

4. Usable volume, easy casual listening right around 10 o’clock and imbalance has cleared.

5. Very loud but short term usable at 12 o’clock.

6. Easy long term listening with less sensitive Letshuoer S12 planar IEM. With them there is essentially no imbalance as the volume is not really usable until somewhat past where the imbalance clears.

Ok so you have useable range from just before 10 o'clock to 12 o'clock

This is a pretty small range

So it is easy to at least understand how others struggle with 9-11 o'clock range for example. It's not wildly different...

For some this is an issue and for others less an issue and for remainder non issue.

But main point is the useable range is too small and unfortunately too low on the clock dial when using volume pot.

Move useable range past 12 oclock and it is less an issue.

Or better yet @iFi audio , employ a better version of what Gryphon and xDSD use and this problem disappears for everyone, forever...

 

[BS5711]

Ok so you have useable range from just before 10 o'clock to 12 o'clock

This is a pretty small range

So it is easy to at least understand how others struggle with 9-11 o'clock range for example. It's not wildly different...

For some this is an issue and for others less an issue and for remainder non issue.

But main point is the useable range is too small and unfortunately too low on the clock dial when using volume pot.

Move useable range past 12 oclock and it is less an issue.

Or better yet @iFi audio , employ a better version of what Gryphon and xDSD use and this problem disappears for everyone, forever...

Agreed in principle. Yes it is a small range but for desktop use it is not a problem at all, and we are talking IEM here, I have no headphones that are anything like that level of efficient and usable volume is generally 12 o'clock and above with them on eco and more usually standard.

But there is a huge difference between channel imbalance clearing at 10 o'clock versus 11 o'clock and I will agree if that is more typical that isn't optimal even in eco for IEM and probably not even for some sensitive headphones if listening moderately.

I guess I got lucky.

 

[flyte3333]

and I will agree if that is more typical that isn't optimal even in eco for IEM and probably not even for some sensitive headphones if listening moderately.

Well yes that's exactly all I and others have been reporting for years with full the range of iDSD products.

For the solution - refer to my comments about Gryphon and xDSD. Neo iDSD also, which I forgot to mention previously.

That is the solution to end all channel imbalance comments AND to end comments that Diablo is 'too powerful' - end such comments forever.

For Pro iDSD products they should move to R2R relay based volume control to end this, like my SMSL SP400, Topping A90D etc. Why they stick to volume pot for this price, I have no idea. And they can't comment on transparency regarding R2R relay based vol control.

For the chip solution yes, what they are using has limited SNR. So use a better chip.

 

[iFi audio]

I don't know how long this person on the iFi account has been with the company but I was original micro iDSD owner and those threads are still all there.

Nearly 7 years

Anyway hopefully iFi engineers read this because they will understand and thats all that matters really.

The subject of channel imbalance in our products with analog pots is something we've discussed countless times before. If in case of our micro iDSD Diablo there's not enough headroom, we suggest iEMatch, but in general micro iDSD Signature provides more headroom for super-sensitive loads.

Or better yet @iFi audio , employ a better version of what Gryphon and xDSD use and this problem disappears for everyone, forever...

Volume circuits inside our xDSD/xCAN and micro ranges are different and each has its pros and cons that our R&D exploits the best they can. That said, we listen to all the feedback here and we understand that some folks may not be satisfied with limited volume range.

Why they stick to volume pot for this price, I have no idea.

Pots have their advantages and are widely underestimated. The price for these advantages is channel imbalance early on, which is why our products with analog pots have different power modes to largely overcome that issue.

 

[flyte3333]

Volume circuits inside our xDSD/xCAN and micro ranges are different and each has its pros and cons that our R&D exploits the best they can. That said, we listen to all the feedback here and we understand that some folks may not be satisfied with limited volume range.

Don't forget Neo iDSD has chip based analogue volume control

If in case of our micro iDSD Diablo there's not enough headroom, we suggest iEMatch

Adding another gadget for portable use and at the cost of adding output impedance, is not ideal.

but in general micro iDSD Signature provides more headroom for super-sensitive loads.

I don't think more headroom is what is required... Diablo has copious amounts of headroom for sensitive loads...

Nearly 7 years

Great, then you should have seen ALL the complaints

I would have thought by now this was a solved problem.

Anyway there's nothing else I can say on the topic, so will leave it there.

I've sold my iDSD's and Diablo but will revisit a future iFi transportable if this is no longer a problem.

 

[flyte3333]

Nearly 7 years

Great, then you should have seen ALL the complaints

I would have thought by now this was a solved problem.

Anyway there's nothing else I can say on the topic, so will leave it there.

I've sold my iDSD's and Diablo but will revisit a future iFi transportable if this is no longer a problem.

 

[801evan]

I would have thought by now this was a solved problem.

Solve a problem on what is a hardware architecture design? Lolz. All the complaints in the world won't change the hardware.

 

[flyte3333]

Solve a problem on what is a hardware architecture design? Lolz. All the complaints in the world won't change the hardware.

Huh?

I can tell from your earlier comment about 'too much power' that you aren't following the technical discussion here.

As long as iFi pass this onto their engineers, that is enough for me

 

[iFi audio]

As long as iFi pass this onto their engineers, that is enough for me

Just to clarify, pass what exactly? Channel imbalance of analog pots?

 

[flyte3333]

Just to clarify, pass what exactly? Channel imbalance of analog pots?

Yes - stop using them please... like xDSD, Gryphon, Neo iDSD...

None of those suffer from this problem. Please pass this comment to the engineers.

You can also dig out all the old iDSD threads and collate all the same complaints and pass that to the engineers too, as feedback.

At this price point of Diablo, why channel imbalance is still a thing in 2022 is bizzare.

 

[iFi audio]

Yes - stop using them please... like xDSD, Gryphon, Neo iDSD...

None of those suffer from this problem. Please pass this comment to the engineers.

You can also dig out all the old iDSD threads and collate all the same complaints and pass that to the engineers too, as feedback.

At this price point of Diablo, why channel imbalance is still a thing in 2022 is bizzare.

I hear you, but as I've said above, analog pots have their own advantages over analog ladders inside a chip and fit some of our products better, in spite of channel imbalance that realistically doesn't affect many people in the grand scheme. Your feedback is highly appreciated, but also something our engineers have been well-aware of for years. I know that you don't agree with me here on this matter, but thanks for a civilized conversation we're having here

 

[801evan]

Exactly why the Diablo sounds better than other ifi models using analog ladders. No free lunch.