iFi audio iDSD Diablo - A portable reference done our way!

[iFi audio]

I am on 7.0 and playing Tidal through ROON I get yellow for MQA and Magenta for MQA Studio. Is this expected behaviour?

In case of any MQA type you should see magenta LED.

As long as reviewers are relatively consistent to their own scoring system, and have a clear breakdown of what it means, then we can learn something from ‘a number’.
I am guessing we might NEED to actually watch their review!(?)

What's your take on reviewers who don't use any scoring system at all and use only words?

 

[Dgowland]

It will work, either using the included balanced XLR cable (4.4mm to 2x 3pin XLR) from the front of the Diablo (where you use the diablo as volume, when the speaker are left ‘turned up to a comfortable point(your required max volume with the diablo set to its max non clipping level, as likely indicated in photos below)) or the Diablos’ rear output, which is a balanced ’line output to sources’, such as active speakers which have XLR inputs and are powered- indicated by the word ‘active’ in their label ‘active speakers’. In that situation you use the volume control on the active speakers as the Diablos volume control will not affect the rear (line level) output. Using the Diablo rear output is preferable, but will not work for many users, and hence another method might be required- using the front outputs.. most likely using the cable below.

The other method is to put a 3.5mm to 2x phono plug (RCA connectors), like the laptop cable to analogue sound cable /powered speakers that has typically been used for decades and is for sale in many many places... plugging that cable into the included 3.5mm to 6.3mm adaptor, and then plugging into active speakers RCA/Phono inputs will work as well.



(^^^^^the aforementioned 3.5mm to 2x phono plug cable^^^^^)


If the speakers need a preamp, the Diablo is ‘it’,.. if they want a line level and have their own volume control then you set the Diablo to give ‘line level’ output volume and then adjust volume via the Speakers volume control.

You can give line level output from the Diablo in several ways; using the rear output (requires balanced XLR connection), or using the front outputs, at which point you will need to provide line levels (as likely indicated in the photos below).

Sometimes you have to adjust the Diablo volume up or down in volume to find ‘less humm’ or noise.. but if this is the case; try first moving the cables around (ie away from power cables and wall warts etc) until the noise goes away.. - and of course make sure that the speakers are not set too high /or are the cause..

I gave a post a few pages back showing photos of the Diablo at the various ‘line output volumes’ in its’ different modes..
edit: further back than ‘a few pages’; post #806 (pg54)

(please excuse the ‘thin blue line’ I should have ‘circled with texta’ the appropriate jacks (the jpegging removed much of the ‘arrow’ pointing to which jack was being indicated); but if you look keenly you will see an arrow indicating which jack and which mode to use, and the volume pott indicates roughly where ‘full LINE LEVEL’ output would be found in each config. This should give maximum dynamic range without overpowering the input circuit on the downstream audio kit)
edit: basically the ‘top row/first three’ photos are the SE output (6.3mm), and the ‘last two/bottom row’ shots are using the front ‘balanced’ output jack (4.4mm).
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Heres a similar situation (active speakers) using the regular ‘single ended’ headphone out into a Sunfire Subwoofer and then daisy chained onto a Bowers and Wilkins Zeppelin.

In this instance I could set the active sub and active speakers to volume levels that work with each other and then use the Digital Audio Player (DAP)to adjust the volume (with the Diablo set to max/line level output), or leave the DAP to line level output, and use the Diablo to adjust the volume.
If I was to turn the volume up on the Diablo above the ’line level’ photos in the linked post, I would expect distortion in the other kit, due to clipping..
Even with the 2700watt sub running at a low level, I could create distorted sound, easily, if I set the Diablo above ‘line level’ output (which is what the other devices EXPECT to receive)..

This is why using the rear of the Diablo, which IS set ot line level output, is ideal, but requires you buy speakers with XLR inputs. These speakers would be active, and be amplifying the sound, where as the Diablo would be using all of its power to give a nice dynamic ‘line level’ output.
True the Diablo IS an amplifier, and can power small sensitive speaker drivers VERY WELL (ie headphones).

It can be useful to have a strategy with your setup to stop others ‘potentially hurting the equipment’ (clipping distortion isn’t great to amplify)..
So some strategies might include:
A) Setting the Diablo to line level output, either using the rear (where the Diablo volume pot does NOTHING), or the front (setting to a level like the photos above indicate/where their is not sound distortion/clipping) and Hiding the Diablo/putting it out of reach; and tuning your powered speakers to the max volume level you would wish them to give. Then you can use the volume level on your phone/DAP/laptop etc to adjust sound.. this setup works logically as the place where people adjust the songs/tracks is also where the volume can be controlled from- note that this setup isn’t ideal as the dynamic range will be artificially compressed to whatever is output from the source.. The Diablo will have limited magic it can do in this scenario- although it will still make music notes sound realistic etc.. but no one needs to touch ANYTHING ELSE, and this will allow controlling/stopping potential damage situations from happening.
B) Setting the laptop/DAP/Phone to full volume output=>having the Diablo at ’line level’ output=> and adjusting the volume on the (active/powered) speakers... (this is more ideal)

I’d use both setups depending on whose party it is (how technical are the guests and how drunk is someones partner who has a penchant for ramping up ‘cotton eye joe’ to full volume might be).
Many paths to the summit.

I bought the Diablo as a DAC/preamp - the way you wish to use it - AND to drive super sensitive speakers. Some would say I don’t need the Diablos RAW power; but that RAW POWER driving clean line level output and giving exceptional headphone control makes it very ‘high end’ in terms of sound output.

Just know that you CAN drive even old computer speakers expecting a 3.5mm input (ie a 3.5mm to 3.5mm cable, using the Diablos adapter to turn one end to 6.3mm).. (I’d give a photo but this cable is in use on the above setup and is offsite to me presently)

I bet you could find an incredible ‘old school‘ set of computer speakers (with a big ass sub unit) for very little coin.
Sme sets are ‘very high end’ and mixing kit can achieve some great results.. (like my B&W /Sunfire combo shown above; although THAT was for testing purposes to see if I would be happy with the sound as a makeshift music setup)( I WAS ! ) It would be ‘beyond party level sound’ for many people... /adequate.

What an awesome explanation, and thanks so much for the multiple examples! I tried it yesterday morning (430 a.m. ahem...) when I was too excited to sleep and had forgotten that my Yamaha HS8's were set to +4db, my pc output was at max and Tidal was using exclusive mode at max as well. You may be able to see what I'm eluding to... With almost no line level volume on the diablo on eco mode, mind you, IT WAS SO LOUD, DEAR GOD. Within a second I had the diablo powered off but to my surprise not a single person in the house woke up (HOW??). Oof, my heart was pounding for a good ten minutes.

With this knowledge and hard learned lesson I will be much more careful about setting all levels to zero and working forward from that point. I'm very wary of leaving anything open for hands to adjust at any type of party because of the sensitivity of the system as a whole and will need to come up with something to totally alleviate that type of issue. There is just no way I could afford to replace the speakers and diablo in one go if something happened.

My home setup is near field only so you can imagine how much louder that experience was. Anyhow, thank you for the help, it's greatly appreciated and I'm stoked to have found this forum. Everyone is so informative and willing to reach out.

 

[whitedragem]

What's your take on reviewers who don't use any scoring system at all and use only words?

Actually I think I referenced that in the post; sites like ‘Digital Foundry’ that avoid numbers...
I think a writer needs to know their target audience and create accordingly...
Myself? I don’t generally watch youtube clips (although watched five yesterday as I was baking an hdmi board in an onkyo/integra receiver and wanted to do it right (doing it right would have required I had the correct tools, which I didn’t, so I did it ‘wrong’ but calculatingly so, (and it WORKED, yay!)).. (I removed a HDMI board from a flagship processor and put it in the oven to get the DTS chip‘ solder to ‘do its job’; a dead processor now processes beautifully: thankyou youtube)...
Youtube clips are easy to watch.. easy to consume and can be done in the background if a reviewer is simply talking about a product. I think that is great, and I applaud that we have so many people willing to put themselves in the spotlight.

I like reading.. and to that end I like to find reviewers who cover things in ways that align with me..
If I didn’t believe in cables making a difference, and a reviewer kept going on about cables.. I’d think they don’t know what they are talking about.

In fact it makes me laugh a little at how brave any journo is nowadays when presenting their viewpoint.. as this ‘free to consume’ society is also free to throw dung.
A great article on ‘what hifi’ that listed a tonne of ways to upgrade a hifi system was fully attacked by the majority that swore they’d lost faith in ‘what hifi’ based on that article.
The insane thing to me is that many of the hacks given I had personally tested and knew to be great benefits to a high end system.
The fact that so many people KNEW that there is no way they could work, and all joined in as a chorus to say how mad the writer must be; makes me realise that we need to find a safe community to belong to.

As an example I applaud the work done at AudioScienceReview. Do I think it is is the ‘be all and end all’ when it comes to kit. NO WAY.
quite simply our ears don’t play a numbers game. measuring some numbers is handy, in some regards, but seldom tells the whole story.
The masterful art of playing an instrument for decades might allow the subtlest of inflections to be added to notes,.. it wouldn’t be 0.1dB of sound.. but it might be the difference of really appreciating a piece of music. A lot of the science gets in the way of EXPERIENCING a piece of music (I don’t listen to test tones)..
A lot of kit I bought decades ago, that didn’t build itself to ‘spec sheet warfare’ was without doubt the better kit for it..

I have learned to trust my subjective opinion. (for me),.. and I love reviewers with personality that have beliefs that align with my own.
I will read a lot, and a lot of material that I might not believe in,.. but how else can I learn if I do not have an open mind.

I am always willing to try stuff, and I would seldom attempt to reduce anything in this incredible world down to ‘a number’.
The Diablo is a ten to me... but as I never give ‘tens’ its a 9.5. on my scale thats ‘as good as it gets’.

But I’d rather talk about it.. and its’ why I frequent this forum.
The more people who have experiences to share about the product, the less I will feel compelled to add stuff.
I just know how I feel when I want to learn about something and there is so little to read about it...

A great question (I’m sure it was rhetorical), Loan a man a mic and he will speak for a minute. but give a man a mic and he will speak for a day.
or was it fish? pretty sure it was something to do with fish.

 

[whitedragem]

What an awesome explanation, and thanks so much for the multiple examples! I tried it yesterday morning (430 a.m. ahem...) when I was too excited to sleep and had forgotten that my Yamaha HS8's were set to +4db, my pc output was at max and Tidal was using exclusive mode at max as well. You may be able to see what I'm eluding to... With almost no line level volume on the diablo on eco mode, mind you, IT WAS SO LOUD, DEAR GOD. Within a second I had the diablo powered off but to my surprise not a single person in the house woke up (HOW??). Oof, my heart was pounding for a good ten minutes.

With this knowledge and hard learned lesson I will be much more careful about setting all levels to zero and working forward from that point. I'm very wary of leaving anything open for hands to adjust at any type of party because of the sensitivity of the system as a whole and will need to come up with something to totally alleviate that type of issue. There is just no way I could afford to replace the speakers and diablo in one go if something happened.

My home setup is near field only so you can imagine how much louder that experience was. Anyhow, thank you for the help, it's greatly appreciated and I'm stoked to have found this forum. Everyone is so informative and willing to reach out.

Thankyou - made me smile.
I recall a similar experience, at boarding school, once upon a time....

It was 2:30 in the morning- I had snuck out of bed to go to the computer room.. A room left unlocked at night (the school was many miles in the country away from everything), and around thirty students rented lockers where we could keep consoles or PCs..
I had a PC in my locker. A sound blaster (version one) sound card that had 5Watts of sound output, and these two giant house home audio speakers stacked in the back of the locker. (it was pretty large). It took me generally five minutes to pull out the power cables and keyboard etc and get it setup/turned on.
Wanting to have a moment to play on my PC, I was willing to risk the sort of trouble I would be in, being in the tech room when I should be in my dormitory, asleep.

Now,.. to let any reading this understand what the boarding school tech locker room was like... we had no TV (on a saturday morning students could watch (music) video hits in the common room for two hours), but mostly students had to study or do sports.

For just under two hours in the afternoons, and a half day on the weekends, the tech room was shoulder to shoulder as everyone played games and other kids sat around and watched.
Every TV and speaker was cranked to full volume when this happened. No one thought anything about this- it was just normal tech room practice. Nobody really heard THEIR game, but nobody heard THEIR game EQUALLY so it was kinda fair...

Having returned to boarding school sans gaming console and TV (I could never hear it), I had returned with my PC, with its incredible sound card (not just PC bleeps through the speaker for me!).
Anyhow, at two thirty in the morning, forgetting that this sound card was cranked to ‘FULL VOLUME‘ (a roll wheel on the back of the sound card, inaccesible as it was under the speakers that had to be pulled out, which required pulling out the monitor first), I started the game Ghostbusters.

The Ghostbusters theme tune starts to play.. Ominous lead in and all..
I didn’t know what to do.
I knew I SHOULDNT yank power from the wall.. but it was too late.. I couldn’t do a proper shut down. I didn’t want to hit reset (that would be worse).. the game was DOS so there was no three finger salute (windows 3.1 wasn’t a thing to gamers).. and I wasn’t sure if CTRL X or Q or ESC would shut it down etc.. It was too shockingly loud to be able to think properly,.. and so I just yanked the power cables from the wall.. shoved the keyboard and bits back in the locker haphazardly.. and just had to ’leg it’.

Priests from all around the various dorms were filing down stairs and coming from every direction.
I had to run to the oval and lie down in the wet grass (sprinklers had already ’done the lawns’)- it was winter and I had to stay put.

It took a good twenty minutes for the school to quieten down again.
It seemed everyone wanted to try to track down the cause of the ruckas, as if a prank had been pulled.

An hour later I returned to my bed, cleverly chosen to be next to the fire escape located at the end of the dorm.
Fortunately it was still ‘wedged open’.
:Lucky me.

@Dgowland -Glad your housemates didn’t wake up. I bet you added some colour to their dreamscapes
(edit: that third photo really shows the full zone! “nice one bruvaa”(/sistaa)

 

[Bob Parish]

...but how else can I learn if I do not have an open mind.

 

[floydfan33]

In case of any MQA type you should see magenta LED.



What's your take on reviewers who don't use any scoring system at all and use only words?

Thanks. Definitely yellow since the 7.0 update. Do I need to open a ticket, or as it is less than a week should I discuss with the dealer here in BC?

 

[justanut]

Thanks. Definitely yellow since the 7.0 update. Do I need to open a ticket, or as it is less than a week should I discuss with the dealer here in BC?

I opened a ticket. Conclusion was to get it replaced with the dealer... Kinda excessive for an issue caused by firmware updates. Magenta still appears with some MQA tracks.

 

[deanbone]

I opened a ticket. Conclusion was to get it replaced with the dealer... Kinda excessive for an issue caused by firmware updates. Magenta still appears with some MQA tracks.

@iFi audio is really starting to develop a habit of releasing buggy firmware updates, firmware updates should be tested thoroughly before release and if it has issues it should not be released. The Diablo is not the only device with firmware issue, some of the iDSD Signature firmware's are horrendously buggy and I've seen many reports of firmware related issues with other iFi devices as well. People have been reporting MQA issue on firmware 7.0 now so there is clearly an issue with the firmware so why hasn't the firmware been taken down? Is there any ETA on when we'll have an issue free firmware? Also why isn't the original firmware that the Diablo shipped with available for download? Downgrading the bug free firmware is a lot easier than returning the item for a replacement!

 

[iFi audio]

Thanks. Definitely yellow since the 7.0 update. Do I need to open a ticket, or as it is less than a week should I discuss with the dealer here in BC?

Please open up a ticket and let's see what our support has to say first, thanks!

People have been reporting MQA issue on firmware 7.0 now so there is clearly an issue with the firmware so why hasn't the firmware been taken down? Is there any ETA on when we'll have an issue free firmware? Also why isn't the original firmware that the Diablo shipped with available for download? Downgrading the the bug free firmware is a lot easier than returning the item for a replacement!

The firmware 7.0 hasn't yet been taken down because our R&D needs to track what exactly causes any issues reported by customers. As soon as we know everything we need to know, we'll inform everyone, so please stay tuned

 

[iFi audio]

Actually I think I referenced that in the post; sites like ‘Digital Foundry’ that avoid numbers...
I think a writer needs to know their target audience and create accordingly...
Myself? I don’t generally watch youtube clips (although watched five yesterday as I was baking an hdmi board in an onkyo/integra receiver and wanted to do it right (doing it right would have required I had the correct tools, which I didn’t, so I did it ‘wrong’ but calculatingly so, (and it WORKED, yay!)).. (I removed a HDMI board from a flagship processor and put it in the oven to get the DTS chip‘ solder to ‘do its job’; a dead processor now processes beautifully: thankyou youtube)...
Youtube clips are easy to watch.. easy to consume and can be done in the background if a reviewer is simply talking about a product. I think that is great, and I applaud that we have so many people willing to put themselves in the spotlight.

I like reading.. and to that end I like to find reviewers who cover things in ways that align with me..
If I didn’t believe in cables making a difference, and a reviewer kept going on about cables.. I’d think they don’t know what they are talking about.

In fact it makes me laugh a little at how brave any journo is nowadays when presenting their viewpoint.. as this ‘free to consume’ society is also free to throw dung.
A great article on ‘what hifi’ that listed a tonne of ways to upgrade a hifi system was fully attacked by the majority that swore they’d lost faith in ‘what hifi’ based on that article.
The insane thing to me is that many of the hacks given I had personally tested and knew to be great benefits to a high end system.
The fact that so many people KNEW that there is no way they could work, and all joined in as a chorus to say how mad the writer must be; makes me realise that we need to find a safe community to belong to.

As an example I applaud the work done at AudioScienceReview. Do I think it is is the ‘be all and end all’ when it comes to kit. NO WAY.
quite simply our ears don’t play a numbers game. measuring some numbers is handy, in some regards, but seldom tells the whole story.
The masterful art of playing an instrument for decades might allow the subtlest of inflections to be added to notes,.. it wouldn’t be 0.1dB of sound.. but it might be the difference of really appreciating a piece of music. A lot of the science gets in the way of EXPERIENCING a piece of music (I don’t listen to test tones)..
A lot of kit I bought decades ago, that didn’t build itself to ‘spec sheet warfare’ was without doubt the better kit for it..

I have learned to trust my subjective opinion. (for me),.. and I love reviewers with personality that have beliefs that align with my own.
I will read a lot, and a lot of material that I might not believe in,.. but how else can I learn if I do not have an open mind.

I am always willing to try stuff, and I would seldom attempt to reduce anything in this incredible world down to ‘a number’.
The Diablo is a ten to me... but as I never give ‘tens’ its a 9.5. on my scale thats ‘as good as it gets’.

But I’d rather talk about it.. and its’ why I frequent this forum.
The more people who have experiences to share about the product, the less I will feel compelled to add stuff.
I just know how I feel when I want to learn about something and there is so little to read about it...

A great question (I’m sure it was rhetorical), Loan a man a mic and he will speak for a minute. but give a man a mic and he will speak for a day.
or was it fish? pretty sure it was something to do with fish.

Great writing right there, thank you very much!

I applaud that we have so many people willing to put themselves in the spotlight.

Yes, it takes a lot of courage to show one's own face and expose him/herself to viewers.

measuring some numbers is handy, in some regards,

It is extremely important internally to i.e. know whether an engineer did everything correctly during the R&D phase.

 

[whitedragem]

Also why isn't the original firmware that the Diablo shipped with available for download? Downgrading the the bug free firmware is a lot easier than returning the item for a replacement!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !.

 

[CH23]

I would like that too, even if only to test if the 'issue' I have now was not there.

 

[whitedragem]

Magenta still appears with some MQA tracks.

Having read a little (a lot) on the MQA stuff, they seem to state that the best MQA files will be the ones that are mastered with the MQA process in mind/using MQA processing at the ‘creation stage’. (this of course makes perfect sense, a lot like the ‘remastered for itunes stuff’ that Apple puts out)

No doubt the various MQA stages have flags or reference to themself (It is after all ‘master quality authentication’), and perhaps those flags can be slightly different.
A bit like how CDs when they came to market had the ability to be AAD-DDD processes (As’ being analogue, Ds’ being digital) where discs could be digital or analogue recorded Dxx or Axx, and then Digitally or Analoguedly engineered xDx or xAx, with all results then pressed to digital disc xxD...
Consumers could buy a disc with any combination of those brandings AAD=>DAD/ADD=>DDD being the four iterations of the monkier (ie Eric Claptons ‘Unplugged’ was a DDD recording, where as Michael Jacksons Dangerous was DAD if I recall correctly (it might have been DDD as well).. most discs were AAD.

Perhaps MQA has an internal flag system that trips the light up in various modes.. that might prove less related to the file processing, but more to their internal methodology.

In that way it could be like the HDCD light, a component of selling HDCD equipped units, was that they needed an LED or ‘light’ to acknowledge HDCD playback. If the file was HDCD it would be decoded on anything with an pacific macrosonics decoder(PMD100(?) and 200 were the chips I believe, but could also be done in software, like Windows Media player (if a user enables ‘allow 24bit CDs’ in the WinMedia Player options (and yes, I know HDCD is a 20 bit format)))..
Anyhow the Flag to light the HDCD light was a seperate flag, put to great use by Trent Reznor on the Into the Void CD single (and on the Fragile albums inclusion of the same track).. literally at a point in the song the engineer made the flag turn on and off the HDCD decoder light to the beat of the music.

Perhaps MQA being a newish format, either some labs have forgot a basic flag, or some processing has a different flag array that might trip up the light on the Diablo.

I would consider that a lack of the LED changing colour (when it DOES change colour with other sampling rates etc) isn’t an issue.. and certainly not if just happening after a firmware change (obviously a firmware change will be able to restore performance to the LED).


I would not encourage anyone to return their Diablo over an LED light changing behavior after a firmware change.
The Diablo is still VERY EARLY DAYS, and iFi support with firmware extends for many many moons, (and many times ’many moons’ beyond a product no longer being sold)- so it is safe to say that iFi will develop bigger better firmwares.

Chances are it doesn’t change the resultant sound one iota whether that light is on or off, even between firmwares..
And this firmware had a lot of MQA fixes implemented in it.. which might be ‘much better utilisation of the double speed/four times the cache(RAM) processor’ to just better handling of the files in general. I’d certainly prefer the newer firmware vs the older firmware and ‘not worry about the light’; which will obviously get fixed in due time.

As the iFi team here has requested- by all means “report the issues experienced” (it lets them know stuff is up).. but I wouldn’t let a tier 1 agent who doesn’t know your product as well as you tell you to take it back (as the solution) carry much weight.
More firmware WILL come, and that is better than getting another Diablo that needs to be broken in to sound as good as your present unit will do ‘right now’.
(A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush)

 

[utdeep]

Having MQA show up with the wrong color doesn’t seem as serious as the device not working without usb-c power plugged in. Still waiting on a response here and via support ticket about what to do

 

[CH23]

Having MQA show up with the wrong color doesn’t seem as serious as the device not working without usb-c power plugged in. Still waiting on a response here and via support ticket about what to do

you can unscrew the back and front, then carefully push the innards from the back to the front (leaving front plate attached)

see if the battery is properly connected.

If you take it out completely be careful, as there's 2 pogopins right next to the USB connector. one of mine was bend from the factory already...