If you had $10k and were starting from scratch…

Jul 5, 2024 at 12:56 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 120

TurboDorkDon

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So I am very new to this wavy sound fascination and have a fascinating setup of the Sennheiser HD800S and the Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies with Mullard 12AU7 tubes. This started with a pair of Focal Bathys I got for traveling, but wanted a step up in the audio quality and also wanted ANC.

Anyway, I know this is a question with almost infinite possible answers - if you were STARTING FROM SCRATCH today, knowing everything you have learned along the way how would you decide to spend $10,000 on a headphone based hi-fi setup?

Super interested to see what responses this gets, and thanks for sharing your wisdom through this Q&A.
 
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Jul 5, 2024 at 3:20 AM Post #2 of 120
So I am very new to this wavy sound fascination and have a fascinating setup of the Sennheiser HD800S and the Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies with Mullard 12AU7 tubes. This started with a pair of Focal Bathys I got for traveling, but wanted a step up in the audio quality and also wanted ANC.

Anyway, I know this is a question with almost infinite possible answers - if you were STARTING FROM SCRATCH today, knowing everything you have learned along the way how would you decide to spend $10,000 on a headphone based hi-fi setup?

Super interested to see what responses this gets, and thanks for sharing your wisdom through this Q&A.
Depending on your genres, and tastes this may or may not be applicable to you, but let me think.

For the DAC I would most likely stick with a Yggdrasil MIB (getting mine next year). It is a highly praised DAC, and is modular by design so you can change its sound with new boards. $2,700

If I stick with a solid state amp I would stick with a Mjolnir 3 (already own). Very detailed, yet fun amp which some have described as having some tube like characteristics. It also powers nearly any headphone you can throw at it. $1,200

For a tube amp option, I have been eyeing the ZMF Aegis. It will depend on which tubes you use, but nearly all impressions of it have been overwhelmingly positive. $3,500+

Headphones I would consider as good pairings for the gear listed above in no particular order: HE1000SE (sub $2k), Atrium Open ($2,500+), and Caldera Open ($3,500+)

Any funds left over would be applied to a streamer, headphone cables, and interconnects.

I listen to a little bit of everything, so I tend to like gear that fairs well with most genres. Please take my opinion with a heavy grain of salt, as my ears are not your ears.

Happy Listening!
 
Jul 5, 2024 at 3:43 AM Post #3 of 120
I would completely write-off tubes, personally. The hidden costs, tube rolling, burnt arm hairs, heat and inefficient power requirements fed more into my obsessive compulsiveness, which took away time from just enjoying listening to music!

Considering currently available hardware, I'd probably get Susvara, a Mentor stack, Gustard X30 (or Laiv DAC if you're into R2R but you'd loose streaming capabilities), some decent cables, a Roon lifetime account, and use the rest on Qobuz indefinately. Oh, and delete my Head-Fi account so I'm never tempted by the next best thing.
 
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Jul 5, 2024 at 12:11 PM Post #4 of 120
Assuming a home based setup, a road setup would be different.
Dodging the question, I'd start by auditioning headphones to find what I liked best. With a $10k budget you have room to buy and return or resell.
Power would be a tube amp of some kind for me. (Woo, for example) Source would be a modern CD player/DAC.
Accessories would depend on what was left of the $10k after working on hardware.
 
Jul 5, 2024 at 2:07 PM Post #6 of 120
Let me provide an alternative response. "Starting from scratch" does not include "knowing what you now know". It can't.
Each of us has to find our own way, our own tastes & perceptions. I can't possibly know what you would like.
But you certainly might benefit from others' experiences & stories - question is how do you calibrate them to yourself?
Example - maybe you would end up loving the sounds of vacuum tubes & might not find it too much of a hassle.
So, if you can find, say a reviewer whose tastes seem to align with yours you might learn more. That also takes real time.
Good luck! It is fun to discover.
I see you have already begun - spend a lot of time with what you have - you've paid for your education already. Get all you can out of it.
 
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Jul 5, 2024 at 3:00 PM Post #7 of 120
Buy more with my heart than with my brain.
It is so easy to get lost overthinking in this hobby and I've learned that going with my gut feeling instead of my head, makes me enjoy the purchases a lot more in the long run.
 
Jul 5, 2024 at 4:20 PM Post #9 of 120
Keep 'em coming. This is all just such great information - and I absolutely agree that my ears are my own and my sound preferences will be unique...AND it is still great to hear what other's journeys have been and if they could wave a wand and start from this point/"from scratch" what that may look like. And I appreciate the contradiction of "from scratch" and "knowing what you know"...VERY good point ... but it is fun to see what that $10k would be invested in.

Thanks everyone also for the warm welcome, looking forward to getting to know this community more.
 
Jul 5, 2024 at 7:48 PM Post #10 of 120
The system I'd build, personally, for my own preferences:

DAC: Chord Hugo TT 2 (used, for around $3500)
Amp: Violectric HPA V550 Pro / V281 (around $3000)
Headphone: HiFiMAN HE1000 Stealth or SE and a used ZMF Atrium Open

In other words, pretty much what I have now. I'd just like to upgrade my DAC to something insane. Other than that, I'm supper content with my system right now. :)
 
Jul 5, 2024 at 7:52 PM Post #11 of 120
I currently have the Topping A70Pro and D70Pro Octo with an optical USB cable and powered hub.
I'd get the Dan Clark Stealth and Hifiman Arya Stealth to round it out and call it a day for that budget. Also Audiophileninja cables which I think are the nicest out there after having a few sets.
 
Jul 6, 2024 at 3:01 AM Post #13 of 120
Speakers! There are many albums I love but can't enjoy unless I play them on speakers. There is no album I love that I can't enjoy unless I play it on headphones. As simple as that.
Oh sure, headphones can be so very clean and detailed. Headphones are more discriminating than speakers(lower distortions, no reverb, left channel only getting to left ear) so it's the way to go when doing listening tests. But for music enjoyment, at home, there is a more natural way to do it. One that almost all sound engineers used to mix and master the album you're playing.

So,
-Option 1, I don't live where I live, I'm all alone(sometimes I dream of it but don't tell anybody). I'd get good speakers instead of my old LSR308 I can almost never use because it disturbs whomever(why I never bothered getting anything better :crying_cat_face: ). Plenty of ways to lose 10k with a speaker setup. Multichannel would be my poison nowadays, 3 years ago I was so sure I would never care for more than stereo. But since I've demoed more multichannel systems(for maybe one day........), but more importantly, more multichannel music(also movies and TV shows stream in Atmos now. Stereo is dead).

-Option 2. What I had to do. Get a Realiser A16, use it with your HD800, spend the rest of the money on music and a well deserved trip to recover from the torment that is setting up and measuring actual speakers with the A16.
You'll never get a better, more convincing feeling of space and imaging on any classic non DSP headphone's playback system, no matter how much money you throw at headphones, amps and DACs. Not an opinion, but an objective fact based on how humans locate sounds. You can have a gazillion taps and oversampling to the moon for the nicest looking impulse response, a gigawatt of power and the lowest ever level of distortion out of a transducer, so long as your HRTF wasn't involved somewhere(naturally with speakers, or in some convolution with headphones), realistic is not going what you'll get.
Some people manage to imagine big spaces with basic headphone playback, I have a very hard time escaping lateralization*, and whatever space I manage to invent, collapses the moment I move my head a little. That does not happen to me with the A16. I still get impacted by what I see and the size of the actual room I'm in, but the instruments are far from me and anchored to a physical place(like my turned off speakers because my brain still thinks they can make sounds) thanks to head tracking and a fluid change between my recorded impulses for convolution in the right direction.



*
Sound localization refers to the ability to identify the location of a sound source in a sound field, whereas lateralization refers to the similar auditory ability in which the listener determines the location of sounds, presented through headphones, in their head (intracranial)
Musiek and Chermak, 2015


Obviously, I'm always grateful for headphones and IEMs, and keep using them massively when I'm outside. I also believe that the future of fidelity is through headphones because speakers will never match the level of fidelity. But only if we stop ignoring the elephants in the room, like head movement, and HRTF.
 
Jul 6, 2024 at 3:19 AM Post #14 of 120
This is very subject question and almost impossible to answer since we do not know what you're goal or sound you want to achieve. This is based on my needs/wants and the sound I like, which is very neutral/technical. I also not a tube enthusiast; not that I don't enjoy them.

If it were me, I try to buy gear I can use across for difference situations. This is also based on my experience.

Desktop/stationary: FiiO K9 Pro: solid-state state amp/DAC with two ESS chips, THX certified; I think they may have released a dual AKM chip version. This can be used a preamp too. This runs around $1000US

Portable: FiiO BTR7 or BTR5, which are portable amp/DAC to be able to use wired headphones. This can power most headphones well; don't do well with some of the very demanding planars, but can handle something HD600. Can be used with a Desktop. The BTR5 is around $100US and BTR7 is around $200US.

Headphones: If you like the sound of the Bathys, the Focal Stellia would be an excellent choice. Super easy to drive; you really do not need to amp to drive well. They're one of the best sounding, by most people's accounts, close backs available. They're about $4000. If you want open back, the Focal Utopia are another end game headphone stated by most people; they're about $5500. You could consider the Focal Clear which are consider extremely good: run around $1000US. Sound say using Dekoni Utopia pads gets very close to the Utopia sound, which run around $90US. Another option would be something like HD600 which are a gold standard for midrange open backs; I think they around $500US. Sennhieser 800 or 800s are excellent choices as well.

With possible extra money: I would consider some BT headphones such as Bathys for travel or doing chores around the house; these around $650-$800US. Maybe Bottleneck Crackhead tube amp to use with a DAC/preamp. This can give impression of opening up the sounds stage of some headphones. This can run $500-$1000 depending if someone is assembling and upgrades. I would upgrade the cables with something from like GUCraftsman; less microphronic, more silver.

Most of the gear I listed is what I own and use: FiiO K9 Pro (ESS) and BTR7, Focal Stellia, Elgia, and Bathys, and GUCraftsman. Most of the other stuff I've used at Headfi meetups.
 
Jul 6, 2024 at 8:44 AM Post #15 of 120
So I am very new to this wavy sound fascination and have a fascinating setup of the Sennheiser HD800S and the Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies with Mullard 12AU7 tubes. This started with a pair of Focal Bathys I got for traveling, but wanted a step up in the audio quality and also wanted ANC.
My practical advice for you would be to tune and optimize what you already have to bring out its best: change tubes, consider tube dampers, consider how the amp is mounted - footers (same for the source(s)), cables - including the headphone's, power supply including power cord and what it's plugged into. That could keep you busy for a long time & will further your journey of discovery.
 
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