Quote:
Originally Posted by mvw2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The choice will not so much come down to buying a better product but rather a better fitting product for your particular tastes. You seek different, not better...if this makes sense to you.
|
Well, I agree I definitely want something that's different, and I'm hoping that it can be better than the ER4S. I think it's possible
Quote:
| The problem then becomes the fact that you will have to spend a LOT of money to actually buy a holistically better product. That's just what you'll have to step to. Now you're looking at high dollar customs. As well, you'll have to decide if you want to stay with the IEM platform or step towards other options like full-sized cans too if you don't already have a pile of those too. |
I have a quite a few full sized cans - HD650, HD580, HD595, HD590, RS-1, AKG K701. I'd like a pair of HD800s *drool* and maybe some stax, but right most of the listening I get to do lately is done while working in a biochemistry lab, where there are a bunch of other people trying to work and concentrate. Thus I want something that not only isolates me from the general lab noises, but also isolates my music from them. That said, I hadn't considered maybe something like the AKG K271, which would get me what I'm looking for here maybe. I generally don't like the sound of closed cans, and I've preferred my IEMs to any closed cans I've tried (DT770s for eg), but maybe I should reconsider some other higher end closed cans.
Quote:
| Before stepping to customs and if you don't mind losing isolation, I would suggest you try out Yuin's OK1 earbud. It's the only thing I've run personally that I actually could say was slightly better then the ER4S. It would be very tough for you to not like this earphone. It improves on a number of aspects from the ER4S but does lose some of the very excellent sound stage space/location that the ER4S has although the OK1 being pretty good in its own right. It just depends on if isolation is a requirement for you. It's $230 so under your budget, and Head Direct offers a 30 day return policy so no real commitment. |
That's actually maybe not a bad idea. I do want something that's pretty isolating actually, but I'd give that some thought. I generally don't like how earbuds feel in my ears, that's the other thing that keeps me away from them. I don't mind IEMs, but earbuds bother me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antony6555 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Ahha! So did I convince you to sell you er-4S and upgrade? I'm just teasing you.
|
Hardly- my ER4S are keepers. I'll always keep them and my RS-1s, since they (RS-1) were a present from my then fiance.
Quote:
| I am in almost exactly the same boat. I too was an er-4S owner until very recently when I sold my er-4S. I too had an se530 and found them muddy and lacking in treble extension. But my biggest problem was the lack of coherence. When I listened to the se530s, they sounded odd, as though the lows and highs were coming from separate sources. The imaging was also affected. |
That describes my interpretation of them exactly.
Quote:
| When I became interested in upgrading from er-4S to a triple driver, I started a thread where I explained my experience with the se530 and basically asked if all multiple driver iems suffer from a relative lack of coherence compared to single drivers. About half of the responses I got were just people flaming me for criticizing the se530 (seems like the se530 is always a volatile subject.) |
Yeah, I don't get the fanboyism response to the SE530. If you like them- great, but if I don't like them, then I don't like them, and you can't convince me that I do/should like them, or that I'm not using them properly.
Quote:
| But even taking into account those who actually attempted to answer my question, no one had experienced the same noticeable coherence issues I had with the se530. Note that my pair was not faulty, as I sent them in once for repair, received a new pair, and still had the same coherence issues. My conclusion was that some people, like you and I apparently, are just more sensitive to coherence issues, while the majority don’t notice it. |
I really think it's probably a phase distortion issue due to cross overs. I really wonder if perhaps these multi-driver IEMs need an active crossover that then run separate cables from the crossover device up to the IEMs themselves. Anyway, that was very tangental.
Quote:
| So asking a random [insert multi-driver iem here] owner if the given iem has coherence issues isn’t likely to be that helpful. So, to answer you question, all muti driver iems will suffer from coherence issues to some extent. This doesn’t mean, however, that it will be noticeable. At the same time, I don’t think a lot of responses you’ll get to your coherence questions will be useful, as most people are not as sensitive to it. I’d recommend trying out a universal dual or triple driver. |
Yeah, I think that's quite possibly good advice. The only reason I'm somewhat hesitant to go that way is because these will be a combination PhD graduation / Christmas / Birthday gift, so in that sense, I want them to be something I actually keep. Maybe it's silly, but I will have some sentimental attachment to them.
Quote:
| If you do have coherence issues, at least you’ll be able to sell it. This is the path I’ve chosen to take. If you go with a custom first, you’ll be stuck with it. |
Yeah, that's a concern. *sigh* Maybe I should just wait for you to try out some universal IEMs and tell me if you hear the coherence issue. At least I know that you can hear it, so if you try some universals and you don't hear it, then there's hope for me.
I call this strategy- hedging my bets
In terms of specific recommendations, I’d recommend the ck100. It’s less bass heavy than the other triple drivers and but still has better bass impact and more forward mids than the er-4S and a noticeably larger soundstage, with an equally compelling high end, from what I’ve read. This is the iem I chose after undergoing a similar search. There are a few reviews on it, though not a ton. It can be had new from pricejapan for $400.
Quote:
| The triple fi would be another suggestion, but it has more recessed mids and more bass quantity. It was a close deciion for me, but ultimately I decided the triple fi might have too much bass for my taste. I was also worried about the ergonomics of the triple fi. |
I am worried about the ergonomics of the triple fi, but I have considered buying a pair of them used to see what I think of them- but I've held off thus far. But I don't know.
Quote:
| I’d recommend you stay away from the um3x, I’ve heard it described as an improved se530. In terms of dual driver (single crossover) iems, I doubt there are many universal dual drivers you’d consider an upgrade to your er-4S. |
I'm surprised that the UM3X is considered an improved SE530- since one is Westone and one is Shure. Hmm.. Je ne sais pas.
Quote:
| People tend to argue that er-4S is an objectively better iem than most others because it is more neutral. While it is more neutral than many similarly priced phones, I don't buy that it is neutral as people say it is. While it's bass and mids are pretty flat (though it has lower end roll-off), it has obvious treble peaks on a graph, which are just as noticeable when listening. In addition, though I enjoyed my er-4S a lot while I had it and was stunned by the level of fidelity for it's size and price, it does not sound like a full-size headphone. It seems like most head-fiers think even universal triple driver iems sound closer to full-size headphones than the er-4S. Not all of course, but this seems to be the general consensus. I can't speak for myself yet, but I hope my ck100 will sound closer. I suspect I will probably make the jump to customs at some point anyway though. |
I don't necessarily care if they have the spatial effects of full sized headphones. I like that sense of space that I get from my AKG K701s, but what I care about most is just tonality (nice analytical frequency response) and a coherent presentation. I generally don't find the sound of the ER4S to be overly trebly, but I wonder if that could be cause I'm 31. I've also had high frequency ringing in my ears since I was really little, so I wonder if that might also be why more trebly sounding headphones are appealing, because, as I understand it, you can't hear any frequencies that occur at the same frequency of the ringing in your ears.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvw2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I speak more then just frequency response. I'll say that most every earphone out there can improve with EQing, even very good ones. I speak of a broader range like how the note is presented, attack/decay, dynamics, energy, etc. I speak about the sound stage and the ability to separate and individualize all the sounds and not only separate but also place these sounds in a single position in empty (mental) space. I speak of overall balance of presentation where one aspect doesn't overshadow another. The ER4S does a lot of these things really well.
|
Yes, I agree - particularly with regard to the dynamics, attack and decay, energy. I don't know that I can say much about their soundstage. Hmm..
Quote:
| Frequency response alone is only one, small, fixable aspect. The treble isn't that bad on it, but it could be better. For example, this is one aspect I particularly like about my current OK1 in that it does do treble a good bit better then the ER4S. The ER4S is not as bad as say the Phonak PFE which does have a pretty significantly ragged top end response, although still livable without EQing. I've EQed the PFE to significantly better results. It's just not something most folks have available or are willing to do. |
I've tried EQing my ER4S with my iPod- bass boost or treble reducer. The bass boost makes some sounds sound terrible, and the treble reducer doesn't really give me what I'm looking for.
Anyway, thanks for the feedback guys.
