Ibasso 1 bit Discrete portable DAC with Resistors Array D16

[Whitigir]

While I'm listening to my music on my ZMF Bokeh running from D260 (as transport) - Ibasso D16 DAC - Ibasso PB5, it really sounds freaking awesome!
I would like to share my experience with Ibasso as my DX300Max Ti failed to power on and left side got hissing issues, I send in to Ibasso to repair. Paul is a true gentleman, replaced the batteries and troubleshoot the issue and charged me at a very reasonable price and send my unit back to me and told me enjoy my music
As I always enjoy the sound of Ibasso, I would like to share my experience with Ibasso and let more people aware of such a amazing company. I have faith in their products even more.
Now I can't wait to receive my DX300Max Ti as Paul had send DHL to me.

This is exactly*** Exactly***

.
.
The reason why all of my stuff is Ibasso now. People can call me a hard Ibasso fan. Because Ibasso products is just amazing. Not only the house sound that I crave, but also the customer services from Paul and team ibasso is just amazing, literally second to non in the industry.

Every other brands and products I have tried, either refused or ignored my requests in regarding to spare parts or services....especially services, it could be lead round and around and around to the point of madness where you would think tossing it into the trash bin and buy another is the answer

I can never thanks Ibasso enough for what they are doing

 

[dpeterfy32]

D16 is not R2R is it?

 

[Bengkia369]

This is exactly*** Exactly***

.
.
The reason why all of my stuff is Ibasso now. People can call me a hard Ibasso fan. Because Ibasso products is just amazing. Not only the house sound that I crave, but also the customer services from Paul and team ibasso is just amazing, literally second to non in the industry.

Every other brands and products I have tried, either refused or ignored my requests in regarding to spare parts or services....especially services, it could be lead round and around and around to the point of madness where you would think tossing it into the trash bin and buy another is the answer

I can never thanks Ibasso enough for what they are doing

Totally agreed, some companies would quote you a repair that is almost the price of a new one (I don’t want to list those companies here but there are many such companies out there).
Paul and his team at IBasso on the other hand quote me a very reasonable price for the repair where I highly appreciated.
Paul just give me more faith in buying their products now & I’m sure a big IBasso fan now

 

[BlankName]

D16 is not R2R is it?

No, 1 bit pwm pcm dac, not 1 bit pdm/dsd.

 

[Whitigir]

No, 1 bit pwm pcm dac, not 1 bit pdm/dsd.

Could you elaborate ? Thank you

 

[Ferdinando1968]

Could you elaborate ? Thank you

https://help.nativedsd.com/en/articles/94423-pdm-and-pcm-explained-in-relation-to-dsd

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-density_modulation

 

[Whitigir]

Could you elaborate ? Thank you

the reasons why I am asking is because if I missed anything from these technologies and analogy, I am eager to learn more everyday. To clarify what differences in definitions of PCM and PDM.

PCM: Pulses code modulations
PDM: Pulses Density Modulations

We can understand that PDM is a signals that is contained in 1 bit format, which only needs going through a final stage of low pass filters in order to become analog. This is , if we talk about 1 bit true DSD DAC, which is SACD drives by itself, is actually an interface that can read and conduct 1 bit PDM signals, then pass directly toward a Low Pass Filters networks in order to decode it.

PCM is a first stage of digital signal processing, it is always Multi bit, with each stages, the bit depth is reduced and the original quantized signals which were sampled and processed from the Analog signals will be achieved. This is the nature of the majority of DAC converter.

So, R2R is just a Progressive Ladder in order to achieve the processing of the said PCM and reducing it bit depth to become the PDM.

Now, onto the question and the vast answer of whether D16 is R2R or not, and PCM or PDM 1 bit. I dont think these 2 are related directly at all. Because this can be spined either way. Why do I say so ?

Because there are only 2 ways to process Digital Audio Files into Analog signals: Non Over Sampling, or OverSampling. People call them NOS or OS.

The Conducting of such signals between multibit PCM or 1 bit PDM is a totally different balls game. A lot of marketing stuff were made and aimed toward this factor and intentionally causing confusions for the consumer.

So then, either IC Chips (Integrated Chip) or R2R, can be either NOS or OS in topology. Also, some IC chips are actually R2R on a wafle by itself as well.

 

[Whitigir]

the reasons why I am asking is because if I missed anything from these technologies and analogy, I am eager to learn more everyday. To clarify what differences in definitions of PCM and PDM.

PCM: Pulses code modulations
PDM: Pulses Density Modulations

We can understand that PDM is a signals that is contained in 1 bit format, which only needs going through a final stage of low pass filters in order to become analog. This is , if we talk about 1 bit true DSD DAC, which is SACD drives by itself, is actually an interface that can read and conduct 1 bit PDM signals, then pass directly toward a Low Pass Filters networks in order to decode it.

PCM is a first stage of digital signal processing, it is always Multi bit, with each stages, the bit depth is reduced and the original quantized signals which were sampled and processed from the Analog signals will be achieved. This is the nature of the majority of DAC converter.

So, R2R is just a Progressive Ladder in order to achieve the processing of the said PCM and reducing it bit depth to become the PDM.

Now, onto the question and the vast answer of whether D16 is R2R or not, and PCM or PDM 1 bit. I dont think these 2 are related directly at all. Because this can be spined either way. Why do I say so ?

Because there are only 2 ways to process Digital Audio Files into Analog signals: Non Over Sampling, or OverSampling. People call them NOS or OS.

The Conducting of such signals between multibit PCM or 1 bit PDM is a totally different balls game. A lot of marketing stuff were made and aimed toward this factor and intentionally causing confusions for the consumer.

So then, either IC Chips (Integrated Chip) or R2R, can be either NOS or OS in topology. Also, some IC chips are actually R2R on a wafle by itself as well.

Now, to answer the people question of whether D16 is R2R or not.

The answer is that the D16 is infact an R2R as it most vital part in the system is multiple Arrays of Resistors to Resistors Ladder.

If the question is, D16 is a 1 bit R2R DAC ?

The answer is that the D16 is a 1 bit R2R DAC, because every signals being conducting toward D16 are going to become 1 bit PDM before it being processed by R2R arrays

If the question is, D16 is a multibit R2R ?

Answer, No! the D16 is not a multibit R2R in design or archtect. The D16 is a multibit DAC, but is a Single 1 bit R2R in design and not multibit R2R. They are very different.

What is the different ? between 1 bit R2R and Multibit R2R ?

Well, it comes down to the way the DAC is working in it topology.

Multibit R2R: This system is using R2R ladder in order to achieve MSB and LSB, then processing it, achieve it, logging it. Then going into a processor which typically is an FPGA to apply Sampling processing. This then could also be NOS or OS application.

1 bit R2R: This system is using DSP Chip, and it could be FPGA or whatever DSP Chips such as AKM/ESS....whatever else.... to process and handling everything....Until the final phase, every Digital signals have becoming a PDM signals, then it will be handled by the R2R arrays, to finalizing the last steps of processing.

I have got this question so many times: What is the D16 in technology ?

Ibasso term: Discrete 1 bit DAC. The way I understand it, it is 1 bit R2R.

There are very few DAC that handle direct PDM signals and interfaces. But this is not what you are listening to anyway, because the PDM in itself was a processed signals coming directly to you system, being processed by however the studios deemed the best. You are not listening to your own DAC, but to the Studios intention. It has it pros and cons, but it failed because of high cost involving all the proper engineering, recordings and Memory capacity

 

[Ferdinando1968]

Now, to answer the people question of whether D16 is R2R or not.

The answer is that the D16 is infact an R2R as it most vital part in the system is multiple Arrays of Resistors to Resistors Ladder.

If the question is, D16 is a 1 bit R2R DAC ?

The answer is that the D16 is a 1 bit R2R DAC, because every signals being conducting toward D16 are going to become 1 bit PDM before it being processed by R2R arrays

If the question is, D16 is a multibit R2R ?

Answer, No! the D16 is not a multibit R2R in design or archtect. The D16 is a multibit DAC, but is a Single 1 bit R2R in design and not multibit R2R. They are very different.

What is the different ? between 1 bit R2R and Multibit R2R ?

Well, it comes down to the way the DAC is working in it topology.

Multibit R2R: This system is using R2R ladder in order to achieve MSB and LSB, then processing it, achieve it, logging it. Then going into a processor which typically is an FPGA to apply Sampling processing. This then could also be NOS or OS application.

1 bit R2R: This system is using DSP Chip, and it could be FPGA or whatever DSP Chips such as AKM/ESS....whatever else.... to process and handling everything....Until the final phase, every Digital signals have becoming a PDM signals, then it will be handled by the R2R arrays, to finalizing the last steps of processing.

I have got this question so many times: What is the D16 in technology ?

Ibasso term: Discrete 1 bit DAC. The way I understand it, it is 1 bit R2R.

There are very few DAC that handle direct PDM signals and interfaces. But this is not what you are listening to anyway, because the PDM in itself was a processed signals coming directly to you system, being processed by however the studios deemed the best. You are not listening to your own DAC, but to the Studios intention. It has it pros and cons, but it failed because of high cost involving all the proper engineering, recordings and Memory capacity

Sorry, I can't answer your questions about the specific DAC.
I can only tell you that R2R DACs are called that because the input resistive network (which is essentially an analog 'weighted' sum circuit) is made up of resistors that have only two values, R and 2R.
These are DACs that (as a first approximation) do not need digital circuits, and can be made with analog components (resistors and operational amplifiers).
They are multibit DACs.

If instead we talk about delta-sigma DACs (1 bit), these too can be built with 'discrete' components (resistors included), but between them there is no R and 2R ratio (the circuit works in a completely different way).
So the terminology R2R should not be used in this case.

https://audiodesignguide.com/DSC1/index.html

When it comes to oversampling, the same term is used for both ADCs and DACs, and although it is basically the same concept, it has a slightly different practical meaning in the two cases.

On ADCs, oversampling is actually performed (that is, many more samples are produced than will remain in the final product), while on DACs, the ‘oversamples’ are created ‘artificially’, by interpolating between existing values (provided that there is sufficient resolution, that is, sufficient quantization bits, otherwise the operation is useless).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oversampling

 

[Whitigir]

#Sorry, I can't answer your questions about the specific DAC.
I can only tell you that R2R DACs are called that because the input resistive network (which is essentially an analog 'weighted' sum circuit) is made up of resistors that have only two values, R and 2R.
These are DACs that (as a first approximation) do not need digital circuits, and can be made with analog components (resistors and operational amplifiers).
They are multibit DACs.



If instead we talk about delta-sigma DACs (1 bit), these too can be built with 'discrete' components (resistors included), but between them there is no R and 2R ratio (the circuit works in a completely different way).
So the terminology R2R should not be used in this case.



https://audiodesignguide.com/DSC1/index.html

When it comes to oversampling, the same term is used for both ADCs and DACs, and although it is basically the same concept, it has a slightly different practical meaning in the two cases.

On ADCs, oversampling is actually performed (that is, many more samples are produced than will remain in the final product), while on DACs, the ‘oversamples’ are created ‘artificially’, by interpolating between existing values (provided that there is sufficient resolution, that is, sufficient quantization bits, otherwise the operation is useless).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oversampling

The first picture is a multi bit R2R as i said MSB and LSB. It is different than 1 bit R2R. It will still need digital components to correct errors and applying noise shaping before processing. Most of the DAC designed this way are all OverSampling because the inherent high errors tolerances of the discrete Resistors can not qualify enough for a low noise, low error signals retrieved. Most of them are using FPGA

The second picture is a 1 bit R2R. You can clearly see the input being PDW (DSD inputs) and then the final chain is a resistor to resistor ladder of 64X by 8Kohm in values. They are also divided into multiple stages for FIR filtering as well with the shift register IC 74HCT595S16
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Diodes-Incorporated/74HCT595S16-13?qs=Oxncjon6mbpgzt/DZvS0qg==

Remember! DSD or Direct Signals Digitals are Pulse Density Modulated signals. In order to achieve this signal, you need to apply sampling and filtering process. As long as Sampling is a thing, Non OverSampling or Over Sampling is the real topology of processing


You just linked both which I stated above

Sigma Delta is a term of processing which derrived from Geek terminology of Before and After comparisons. This is what we are calling Oversampling. Because it is also confusing, and together with Nyquist theorem that human can no longer tell the differences as long as the reconstructed signals are TWICE the human bandwidth which is 44.1Khz

That is why the common Non OverSampling we all accepted is actually a 2X oversampling.... and Oversampling by itself is already Sigma Delta stages. There is no such thing as Non Sigma Delta Digital processing

As long as there are quantization steps, there "have to be sampling", whether it is ADC or DAC, it doesnt matter.

There is another direct PDM recording which is DSD native recording (needless to say they are all have to be quantized and modulated...etc...by OS or NOS...etc). But it is similar to analog recording. It can not be edited, can not be altered, the whole performance have to be continous. That was why even as far as SACD go, very little Native DSD recording were available. Most of the SACD were sigma Delta or OverSampled by the Studio engineers and recorded into SACD. That were why later on, all of digital recording were done with DXD which is a low bit high sampling rate (another form of PCM) in order to edit and produce with better efficiency

 

[Whitigir]

The reason why 1 bit R2R is better than multi bit R2R is because the retrieval and processing of digital signals are being done by the IC chips. These chips qualify the mathematical points of 0.0004% precision tolerances in order to be as accurate or as precise as possible, and maintain the original Data from the sources.

The multibit R2R inherent flaws is dueto the retrieval, hold and release resistors of R and 2R are very low of 0.5% precisions tolerances or at most 0.01%, which can not be mathematically correct to meet the precision criterias needed to stay as close to the original as possible.

Multibit R2R has digital streams being retrieved by too high of error tolerances. Then it had to be corrected by a guessing algorithm, that was why most of these DAC were all under OS topology in order to achieve the desirable floor noises. However, the ringings and distortions can sometimes be realized by very experienced golden ears people.

The innovative 1 bit R2R started off by the high end designer of Mola Mola, Rockna and MSB...i dont know which one started first...but they were all Bank breaking products. Thanksfully, The designs have been performing better than expected and we starting to have the chinese to follow suit with their own developments and adapting into portable system. The D16 is the first dedicated Standalone DAC/Amp at a very very affordable price.

The D16 performances is simply unbelievable that can only be justified by giving it an audition. Being subjectives and so on as the nature of this hobby, you gotta judge it for yourself.

 

[dpeterfy32]

my ibasso d16 order arrived today.. guys.. I have quite an experienced ear, I have many 10,000 euro systems, but the d16 completely impressed me after the first switch on... it's full of music, energy, naturalness, the music flows, I immediately take over the music its mood and atmosphere.. it puts it in the middle of the music... it's also fast, it really takes hold of the driver, real booming full thick sub bass extension, high notes are very extended, transparent.. I dare to risk that it beats all DAP devices..
the perfect pairing of technical performance + musical organic..

I just wondered one thing. I expected more power. it can make a 106db/16ohm iem earphone sound loud at a volume level of 70 with the DAC H AMP L setting. the DAC, the large rotary knob, is at the maximum at 5 o'clock. I don't think this has a real 1125 mw output, but I could be wrong. I don't think it could really drive many headphones. However, it was not designed for that. but it takes all iem to heaven! absolute totl source....

 

[CosmicSheep]

my ibasso d16 order arrived today.. guys.. I have quite an experienced ear, I have many 10,000 euro systems, but the d16 completely impressed me after the first switch on... it's full of music, energy, naturalness, the music flows, I immediately take over the music its mood and atmosphere.. it puts it in the middle of the music... it's also fast, it really takes hold of the driver, real booming full thick sub bass extension, high notes are very extended, transparent.. I dare to risk that it beats all DAP devices..
the perfect pairing of technical performance + musical organic..

I just wondered one thing. I expected more power. it can make a 106db/16ohm iem earphone sound loud at a volume level of 70 with the DAC H AMP L setting. the DAC, the large rotary knob, is at the maximum at 5 o'clock. I don't think this has a real 1125 mw output, but I could be wrong. I don't think it could really drive many headphones. However, it was not designed for that. but it takes all iem to heaven! absolute totl source....

Make sure you are in high gain with 4.4mm balanced out and that should be everything that amp has to give.

 

[TRHH]

I don't think it could really drive many headphones. However, it was not designed for that.

With 1125mW +1125mW@32Ω it should not be problem for most HP

Torben

 

[Whitigir]

I drive HD800s with my D16 and loving it