[gemi]

A few years ago I acquired a pair of Grado SR325i. Even after breaking them in, I was quite disappointed. I put them away and recently I decided to give them a second try. For a few weeks I used them exclusively instead of my Beyer DT880. Well, my experience was not pretty. The bass and middle are ok, if not great, but the trouble is with the treble (forgive me the pun). For example, high violins or choir voices are extremely narrow, shrill and restricted, almost monophonic in quality. Of course, the louder, the worse. I would even qualify the sound as nasty, as it starts hurting after a while.
(On the other hand I don't find them uncomfortable to wear, as others do, exceot when it is hot outside).
So I wondered if there is something wrong with the headphones, or something wrong with my ears (I also have Beyer DT231, UE SuperFi5Pro and Beyer DT770)? I doubt the latter, since after going back to the DT880, I delighted in its wonderfully airy sound, with a feel of unlimited treble. BTW I listen to classical music almost exclusively and tried both the headphone output on a Marantz SA7001KI and the headphone output on a Marantz power amplifier.

 

[Davesrose]

It's neither your ears nor your setup....your appraisal makes me think you have good hearing

I think it's not worth it to try to tailor a system around the 325i for your taste in music. The 325i is not a good headphone for classical music. It draws too much emphasis on treble to be well balanced for the dynamics that large scale symphonies require. Since I like rock, jazz, and classical, I find they compliment my hard rock genres best.

If you want to venture into trying out some other headphones, I'd recommend demoing some AKGs or Sennheisers......the HD650 is my favorite headphone for large symphonies. The k701 is another popular headphone. And if you ask which one is best, you'll get conflicting opinions....so it's best to decide for yourself

 

[milkpowder]

Like Davesrose, I like jazz, rock and classical too. Hard rock is indeed where the SR325i (or any Grado) shines. I personally think that the SR325i is a superb complementary headphone to the HD650. It continues where the HD650 left off. I don't know if Davesrose will agree with me on this, but through my few months of ownership of the SR325i, I found them to be slightly drier sounding than the HD650. The bass, in particular is much more acute and aggressive. It isn't sustained for as long (shorter decay). Guitars, in particular the Mike Knopfler-type electric guitar sounded much more lively on the SR325i.

The K701 and HD650 (and the rest of the HD6x0/580 series) have much in common so yes, it does come down to taste. The K701's sound is slightly colder sounding than the HD650, which has quite an obvious warmth and lushness to it. The SR325i is at one end of the spectrum while the HD650 is on the other. The K701 lies in the middle between the two, but I think it is slightly closer to the HD650-end than the SR325i-end. The definition of "reference" is frequently debated here, but I'll be so bold as to say the K701 has more "reference" qualities than the HD650. It sounds closer to the original recording. However, I am slightly disappointed by the lack of substance/warmth in the midrange. As a result I have sold the K701 and if only I didn't have the HE60 (which isn't such a bad thing

), I'd be using the HD650 almost exclusively. It's great for classical music.

Last night I was listening to Midori's Carnegie Hall Debut with and w/o the foam. With the foam, the piano sounded ever so slightly distant, but with the foam removed, a literal veil is removed. There are drawbacks though: The lack of the foam means the highs are now much more aggressive than before, verging on unnatural. The beginning of powerful bow strokes become all too percussive (Midori has such incredible power). I attribute some of that to the recording itself, but I'm pretty sure piano (again depending on recording) would sound slightly overly percussive too. Hence, I've left the foam on. Daverose has much more experience and "head-time" with the HD650 so I trust he'll give you the intricacies if you ask nicely

Oh btw, the K701 can also be defoamed, but the difference is not as great as defoaming the HD650. And if you find the HD650 overly dark (even after trying various amplifiers), then you might want to either give the HD600 or HD580 (indeed, modded with HD600 grilles and HD650 cable

) a try or buy the Zu Mobius replacement cable. These two options make the HD reference series sound much like the K701, but retains the classic Sennheiser midbass warmth, soundstage and organic sound. I haven't directly compared the HD580/600 to the HD650/Zu so that may be something for you to find out.

I can sense a great deal of exciting experimenting and purchasing ahead.

 

[gemi]

Thanks for the comments. The problem is that I cannot relate to the many positive reviews of the Grado. As I said, especially in the treble they sound as bad (to me, anyways) as cheap earbuds, somewhat as if the violins or the voices were enclose in a very small box. I am not such an experienced listener, so as to hear fine differences and subtleties, therefore I thought there must be something wrong.
What would you recommend (preferably from the classical domain) to listen to in order that I might appreciate the strength of the Grado?

 

[MaZa]

If you find treble troubling, you might want to check Todd's Flat pads for Grado. Pad swapping is part of the fun with Grados. Believe me, they change sound A LOT. Even deaf can hear the difference.

 

[laxx]

I don't think flats work with the 325i's. It's bass is already over emphasized and flats will only bring that out more.

 

[amphead]

I came sooo close to purchasing the 325i's, like one keystroke from doing it and then backed off. I feel better and better about my K701 decision as time goes on.

 

[adanac061]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaZa /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you find treble troubling, you might want to check Todd's Flat pads for Grado. Pad swapping is part of the fun with Grados. Believe me, they change sound A LOT. Even deaf can hear the difference.

x2
I know the 325i very intimately.
Flat pads do work wonders for the 325i's.
That's the only way I could recommend them now.

The flats totally change the headphone, the highs are tamed, the mids are less harsh..and I didn't notice any less detail.

 

[uzziah]

grados hurt my ears

but they still rock my socks; but i listen mostly to classical and instrumental jazz and i find grados to be too ........ehhhh "narrow" for me.... i guess

i also have the new dt880's and i just really really like them; have tried sr60, the hf1's, ms1's, k701, k501

alas i find that often i have to choose headphones based on comfort, i have big ole ears

 

[F107plus5]

Even with the very similar-but-a-little-better-for-classical MS2i I find the forward presentation to be a bit off-putting for the bigger classical pieces.

Great for the smaller stuff though!

Yeah; for the bigger stuff I invariably drag out the dear ol' HD600!

...the bowls do break-in and get more comfy with time!

 

[MdRex]

FWIW, Flat pad never worked for me on the SR325i muddles the sound and just fatten mid bass (i.e. BLOATED). The SR325i is an acquired taste, I personally think it sounds fantastic and wouldnt trade it for the any other similarly priced phones. It could be your source (not definite) or inherent from your music (again uncertain), but by "shrill" so you mean plenty of high end or sibilance, Because I have never had a problem with sibilance on the SR325i even on the hottest recorded CD I own. I dont listen to classical music so I cant tell you how well the SR325i work for them.

BTW how can a piece of classical music sound monophonic with all the different instruments playing at the same time?

 

[unclejr]

Try something else. Senns, perhaps. Audition some GS-1000s, they might be the classical music cure you're looking for. Also frequently recommended are the AKG K701s. Famous for soundstage and detail.

 

[milkpowder]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gemi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for the comments. The problem is that I cannot relate to the many positive reviews of the Grado. As I said, especially in the treble they sound as bad (to me, anyways) as cheap earbuds, somewhat as if the violins or the voices were enclose in a very small box. I am not such an experienced listener, so as to hear fine differences and subtleties, therefore I thought there must be something wrong. What would you recommend (preferably from the classical domain) to listen to in order that I might appreciate the strength of the Grado?

Try some piano music and see if they're too bright or not, eg "James Levine, Evgeny Kissin: The Carnegie Hall Concert" or violin "Accardo playing Paganini 1st Violin Concerto". Then give vocals and organ music a bash, eg "Cantate Domino (label: Proprius).

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaZa /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you find treble troubling, you might want to check Todd's Flat pads for Grado. Pad swapping is part of the fun with Grados. Believe me, they change sound A LOT. Even deaf can hear the difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by laxx /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't think flats work with the 325i's. It's bass is already over emphasized and flats will only bring that out more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adanac061 /img/forum/go_quote.gif x2 I know the 325i very intimately. Flat pads do work wonders for the 325i's. That's the only way I could recommend them now. The flats totally change the headphone, the highs are tamed, the mids are less harsh..and I didn't notice any less detail.

My own experience with the SR325i + flats tells me to stay away from them. The combo simply doesn't work. The bass becomes overly powerful (I would not call the bass with bowls overemphasised, YMMV) and the mids become too warm + congested. You're welcome to try them, but I absolutely hated the SR325i with flats. Initially I thought, "ah what a change. No more piercing highs", but after a few days I realised how much I was missing the original sound signature and popped the bowls back on. I guess if you like loads of bass, the flats will please, but loads of bass and resulting lack of definition/clarity is not what classical music is about. I can't imagine listening to something like Shostakovich's 5th Symphony on the SR325i with flats... I didn't hear a loss of detail, but a loss of clarity, YMMV. IMO, the SR325i (w/ bowls) is all about exciting, bright, aggressive sound that really gets you into the music, albeit rock music (flats tame the sound but then it no longer sounds exciting). It's sound (with either pad) just isn't suited for accurate, natural classical music reproduction. There's nothing organic about violins sounding piercing, at least not when you're listening to a recording of some violinist playing a Vuillaume, Guadagnini, Testore, Amati, let alone a Stradivari or a Guarneri. Neither do the top notes of Bosendorfer, Fazioli and Steinways 7'+ pianos sound overly aggressive and bright.

Quote:

Originally Posted by uzziah /img/forum/go_quote.gif grados hurt my ears but they still rock my socks; but i listen mostly to classical and instrumental jazz and i find grados to be too ........ehhhh "narrow" for me.... i guess i also have the new dt880's and i just really really like them; have tried sr60, the hf1's, ms1's, k701, k501 alas i find that often i have to choose headphones based on comfort, i have big ole ears

Haha. The SR325i hurt my ears and head so much when I first got them. They were acoustically quite fatiguing to. It took some getting used to

The soundstage is narrow, but surprisingly it didn't bother me much. The SR325i is pretty good for ensembles. Try Schubert Sextet, Mendelssohn Octet, Brahms String Quartet in c, Bach Brandenburg Concerto No.3, etc... The SR325i images pretty well, despite the narrow/shallow soundstage, and also has terrific resolution. Listen carefully for subtle nuances and you'll think you're listening to a live performance from the 1st row. Solo pieces also sound great, as long as the recording itself isn't overly bright

Quote:

Originally Posted by MdRex /img/forum/go_quote.gif FWIW, Flat pad never worked for me on the SR325i muddles the sound and just fatten mid bass (i.e. BLOATED).

x2!! What he said! Why did I even bother?

If you'd like to retain some of the SR325i but want something that's easier on the ears, may I suggest the RS-2. Otherwise, do your ears a favour and switch to some Senns or AKGs

 

[alpeggio]

I also had the 325i for a while but sold them because I just couldn't bear all the things your describing, I probably would have ruined my hearing if I would continue to use them. And I also tried the flats and it didn't work at all, in fact it made things worse. They did however fit quite nicely with my SR80.

The problem is probably the source as I tried them on my stereo with DTS and that sounded better, still not a fan though. I think it works for music like Dire straits and elton john but listening to ACDC was torture.

For the time being I have a pair of PX100 and I will probably stay with Sennheiser in the future, maybe i'll buy a hd650.

 

[tbonner1]

I agree the 701' s are in between the 650 and Grado's but have better soundstage.