[Evshrug]

If I may add a few things… I’ve gone through most of Sennheiser’s lineup (as I should, so that I could more easily help people with questions like yours in my role as Community Manager for Sennheiser). For an open-backed headphone, the sub-bass extension on the HD 58X Jubilee and HD 560S is quite rare. If that’s a non-negotiable criteria point for you, then yeah you will be hard pressed finding “better” sub bass in other open headphones, including outside of Sennheiser. Maybe some semi-open headphones, closed headphones, or in-ears (I quite enjoy the IE 300).

With that said, so many things in audio are trade-offs. Part of what makes the sub bass extension so good in the HD 58X Jubilee and HD 560S is the new material used in the driver membrane, but if you used that same membrane in an HD 800S design, the resulting headphone would lose out in other areas. Few songs make use of or have much information in the lowest audible frequency ranges… typically it’s synthetic instruments or pipe organs that can produce subbass frequencies at the same dB level as more typical bass or mid range performing instruments. Who knows… you might enjoy other headphones with most songs even if they had less presence than the HD 58X Jubilee with the Dark Knight soundtrack?

Personally, I don’t reach for the HD 58X Jubilee anymore for a use case, between the use cases for the HD 560S, HD 660S, and IE 300. Part of that is personal preference of course! The HD 560S is in a similar price class as the HD 58X Jubilee, and it trades some of the bass emphasis fun for a more linear, studio monitor balance of tones, but that change also decreases masking and makes small details easier to distinguish. I also find the angled drivers help with the presentation of imaging and sense of depth… I don’t find it incapable of intimacy and ASMR spine-tickling whispers in my ear (I don’t feel like the mids are recessed or performers are artificially pressed away from me, it’s just better able to give a sense of the farthest reaches of the stage and still have them feel far), but some people feel that soundstage depth comes on the opposite side of the spectrum as an intimate sound where the stage is compressed.

However, the HD 58X Jubilee is indeed a fine headphone with strong price to performance. That’s a praise I’ve seen heaped on that headphone again and again! People also say the price to performance on the HD 6xx, and even the HD 600, are all very good, but not everyone likes the intentionally lowered highs of the HD 650/6XX (these highs are higher than female vocals… think more forgiving cymbal crashes). The sound from the HD 600 and 650/6XX is more refined and clearer sounding than the HD 58X Jubilee, and the 600 series do reveal more of their former-flagship level performance when connected to higher end audio chains, but some people choose the Jubilee anyway just by preference for the tuning and ease of amping.

Unfortunately, I’ve never heard a headphone sound exactly like I was expecting based on a frequency response chart. They’re a handy place to start and can vaguely help to cross out some extreme tunings, but unfortunately they leave a lot of the experience out compared to listening and observing holistically.

There’s really no “wrong” answer here, and it all comes down to your budget, tonal preferences, and minimum performance expectations. I’m glad you seem to be enjoying your Jubilees!

 

[earmonger]

Evshrug, we may often disagree, and Sennheisers are established as a benchmark. But given your extensive listening with the Sennheisers, have you also heard the Audio-Technica ATH-R70x?

 

[Evshrug]

Evshrug, we may often disagree, and Sennheisers are established as a benchmark. But given your extensive listening with the Sennheisers, have you also heard the Audio-Technica ATH-R70x?

I’d like to hear it, because I had a good history with the ATH-AD700 when I was first starting out on Head-Fi, and I heard the AD900 while with Dekoni, but the ATH-R70x is one I have not tried.

It’s fine if we disagree about our headphone tastes, so long as we both understand people will sometimes agree with one of us or have their own opinion… after all, that is what helps drive diversity in the art of headphones! We’re always speaking to a diverse public

 

[Steven31]

The hd6xx is better than the 58x,
it has more detailed highs. It's where the real 'Law Of Diminishing Returns' kicks in, especially when it's a Black Friday Sale for $190.

You honestly believe the "law of diminishing returns" kicks in at $190 ? wow that's something.

 

[Methos777]

If I may add a few things… I’ve gone through most of Sennheiser’s lineup (as I should, so that I could more easily help people with questions like yours in my role as Community Manager for Sennheiser). For an open-backed headphone, the sub-bass extension on the HD 58X Jubilee and HD 560S is quite rare. If that’s a non-negotiable criteria point for you, then yeah you will be hard pressed finding “better” sub bass in other open headphones, including outside of Sennheiser. Maybe some semi-open headphones, closed headphones, or in-ears (I quite enjoy the IE 300).

With that said, so many things in audio are trade-offs. Part of what makes the sub bass extension so good in the HD 58X Jubilee and HD 560S is the new material used in the driver membrane, but if you used that same membrane in an HD 800S design, the resulting headphone would lose out in other areas. Few songs make use of or have much information in the lowest audible frequency ranges… typically it’s synthetic instruments or pipe organs that can produce subbass frequencies at the same dB level as more typical bass or mid range performing instruments. Who knows… you might enjoy other headphones with most songs even if they had less presence than the HD 58X Jubilee with the Dark Knight soundtrack?

Personally, I don’t reach for the HD 58X Jubilee anymore for a use case, between the use cases for the HD 560S, HD 660S, and IE 300. Part of that is personal preference of course! The HD 560S is in a similar price class as the HD 58X Jubilee, and it trades some of the bass emphasis fun for a more linear, studio monitor balance of tones, but that change also decreases masking and makes small details easier to distinguish. I also find the angled drivers help with the presentation of imaging and sense of depth… I don’t find it incapable of intimacy and ASMR spine-tickling whispers in my ear (I don’t feel like the mids are recessed or performers are artificially pressed away from me, it’s just better able to give a sense of the farthest reaches of the stage and still have them feel far), but some people feel that soundstage depth comes on the opposite side of the spectrum as an intimate sound where the stage is compressed.

However, the HD 58X Jubilee is indeed a fine headphone with strong price to performance. That’s a praise I’ve seen heaped on that headphone again and again! People also say the price to performance on the HD 6xx, and even the HD 600, are all very good, but not everyone likes the intentionally lowered highs of the HD 650/6XX (these highs are higher than female vocals… think more forgiving cymbal crashes). The sound from the HD 600 and 650/6XX is more refined and clearer sounding than the HD 58X Jubilee, and the 600 series do reveal more of their former-flagship level performance when connected to higher end audio chains, but some people choose the Jubilee anyway just by preference for the tuning and ease of amping.

Unfortunately, I’ve never heard a headphone sound exactly like I was expecting based on a frequency response chart. They’re a handy place to start and can vaguely help to cross out some extreme tunings, but unfortunately they leave a lot of the experience out compared to listening and observing holistically.

There’s really no “wrong” answer here, and it all comes down to your budget, tonal preferences, and minimum performance expectations. I’m glad you seem to be enjoying your Jubilees!

Awesome response ...very fair and neutral...wish more people were like you

 

[Evshrug]

Awesome response ...very fair and neutral...wish more people were like you

Thank you! I was worried it was too long… but I felt I covered things with respect to you and your questions

Plus, by my last count, I had over 20 headphones… so finding justifications for each of them come naturally to me “It’s for work!” is currently the only justification that works for my wife

 

[sebek]

I too have experienced something quite similar.

I've had much more expensive headphones - Hifiman Ananda, Focal Clear Pro, Sony MDR-Z1R - but nothing to my ears surpasses the HD 600.

For a matter of timbre, naturalness. The rest almost tends to sound "wrong" once you get used to the HD 600.

 

[Evshrug]

I too have experienced something quite similar.

I've had much more expensive headphones - Hifiman Ananda, Focal Clear Pro, Sony MDR-Z1R - but nothing to my ears surpasses the HD 600.

For a matter of timbre, naturalness. The rest almost tends to sound "wrong" once you get used to the HD 600.

You know you’ve graduated to the next level of Audiophile when you catch yourself thinking “Too much bass!” Wait, was such a thing possible?!? After that, you get sick hearing satellite radio, and down the line you find yourself fascinated by the way you can hear a change in a “whooshing” noise as you walk by a picket fence!

 

[Evshrug]

The Black Friday sales on Drop x Sennheiser products (and EPOS) are insane. I already preferred the PC37X over the warm and somewhat dark HD 599, and now the PC38X (which is like a more fun-tuned HD 560S, similar driver with a different tuning) is only $129.

Not to disparage the HD 560S, I have one of those too and no complaints, but I bought the PC38X with my own money because I am a gamer

 

[Retro Gamer]

Isn't the RTINGS scores also based on price range?

 

[silent-circuit]

Isn't the RTINGS scores also based on price range?

Yes, they account for "value" in their scoring system, pretty sure.

 

[IDrinkLava]

I just want an honest suggestion that is truly better based on price/performance matching, not something that is a little better here or there.

You'd probably like the Koss KPH30i, it has basically the same exact signature down to the large spike at 5kHz that IMO compromises vocal timbre. Bass extension is worse but treble extension is a little better.

 

[CTR640]

I'm kinda in the same boat regarding the dimishing returns. Fortunately I haven't gone that route because I use my common sense and also asking myself questions like "will I regret it? I need to read more regular owners on this and etc etc etc". There have been many headphones I want/like but they all are in the €1000+ range. I have resisted them all because delaying and focusing on important stuff in life. And then after some time and at some point, I won't even look back anymore because: I. Can. Not Justify. The. Prices. And reading the reviews from the regular owners, so not from the youtubers/influencers and asking your important questions to the regular owners also helps a lot to give you impressions on the sound you may or may not like. For example, I wanted the Meze Liric but how the vocals are presented is what I don't like so dropped it. The designs may win but the sound is more important. And last year I bought a "cheaper" headphone, the Klipsch Heritage HP-3 and it's a damn wonderful headphone, the design is very pretty and the sound is lovely too and I like it how the vocals are presented. €1199 (HP-3) vs €1999 (Meze Liric). As you can see, the dimishing return is big for me.

Just exactly as @Evshrug said:

it all comes down to your budget, tonal preferences, and minimum performance expectations.

 

[catom]

It's so incredibly subjective. After a certain point like everyone is saying. Totally agree 100%

For me, and I was saying the same thing to a friend a few months ago, after about $300 it's diminishing returns.

Now this is just my opinion that's based off second hand knowledge. I can't try every pair of headphones of course. I do have some that are more than $300. Many under $300.

I won't really buy headphones that are under $200 for critical listening though. I don't think you can really find anything that great or interesting. But you can find some decent headphones and for people who spend $50-100 normally I always suggest trying $150-200. Especially for the right one it can be night and day.

So you're really just trying to find the signature you like after that cut off.

That or other considerations like comfort, durability, portability, etc.

I try to keep a planar, a dynamic, an open, and a closed in my collection. This leaves me with headphones I can take on vacation or to the office (back when I was going into an office anyway). It also leaves me with headphones I listen to at home during the day and late at night when it's quiet and the kids aren't screaming.

I have variety in the collection for different sound signatures and driver design. So based on my mood or the type of music, I switch. Headphones and also amps.

I think that's it really. That's the reason to experiment and buy more or more expensive. More expensive being a consequence of what's available for the need you have.

Also. You can buy many headphones on sale or used and gain an immediate gain on value. Sometimes a very large one too.

 

[Neweymatt]

It's so incredibly subjective. After a certain point like everyone is saying. Totally agree 100%

For me, and I was saying the same thing to a friend a few months ago, after about $300 it's diminishing returns.

Now this is just my opinion that's based off second hand knowledge. I can't try every pair of headphones of course. I do have some that are more than $300. Many under $300.

I won't really buy headphones that are under $200 for critical listening though. I don't think you can really find anything that great or interesting. But you can find some decent headphones and for people who spend $50-100 normally I always suggest trying $150-200. Especially for the right one it can be night and day.

So you're really just trying to find the signature you like after that cut off.

That or other considerations like comfort, durability, portability, etc.

I try to keep a planar, a dynamic, an open, and a closed in my collection. This leaves me with headphones I can take on vacation or to the office (back when I was going into an office anyway). It also leaves me with headphones I listen to at home during the day and late at night when it's quiet and the kids aren't screaming.

I have variety in the collection for different sound signatures and driver design. So based on my mood or the type of music, I switch. Headphones and also amps.

I think that's it really. That's the reason to experiment and buy more or more expensive. More expensive being a consequence of what's available for the need you have.

Also. You can buy many headphones on sale or used and gain an immediate gain on value. Sometimes a very large one too.

Many excellent points here, and I am with you 100% on going for a variety of different types and tunings of both headphones & IEMs. For me, this is because of the very wide variety of genres I listen to, and having that variety of equipment allows me to experiment to find just the right combination that works best for a given recording.

I've also tried to focus on getting best value for money in each purchase I've made. Just about everything has either been on sale, B-Stock, second hand, or is already outstanding price/performance even at full retail (hello Schiit...)

For me, the point of diminishing returns seems to vary depending on the specific type of equipment, for eg I am quite happy to stick with the UM 3DT as my all DD IEM for now, whereas I went pretty much straight to f-off territory with the Empy as my planar HP.