[fyrfytrhoges]

I agree with JeffGuidry, I would personally like to meet some of the gutless punks who hide behind their computers just so they can troll around for people to annoy with their typed words, on the other hand I take it with a grain of salt, thats all they are is gutless punks and life is way too short to get bent out of shape.....

 

[carlo]

jeff,

points taken.

mbriant,
Quote:

PS: I'd personally like to express my apologies and admiration to the silent majority, the hundreds of members who have chosen to stay the hell away from all of this recent immature crap.

word.

 

[kerelybonto]

We're not talking about anonymous "trolling" here. We're talking about moderators feeling the need to shut down a thread just because it is/becomes a serious discussion about things people vehemently disagree about about. Again, think less the 'gimme a dollar' thread than this thread.

And I love how you demonstrated your commitment to making Head-Fi an even better forum, mbriant. (Damn that sarcasm -- it just comes out of nowhere.)

kerleybonto

 

[mbriant]

kerelybonto said:

Quote:

Okay, so it comes down to the First Amendment. Well then, let's argue that.

Quote:

Unfortunately I'm leaving work early to go blow stuff up. I'll be back to argue the First Amendment tomorrow or Friday. See you then

So this is why you can't seem to let go of a thread that ran 3 months ago? Because your fun was cut short? Arguing, is what interests you most?

A poll, upwards of 200 posts, tempers flaring and certain members stepping over the line wasn't enough to beat this argument about religion to death. Your inability to continue an impossible to resolve argument from 3 months ago, is the one and only thing that matters to you now? It's the one and only thing moderators should be judged by? They should be made to "never forget"?

Things didn't happen exactly the way you wanted them to. Tough titty.

Let it go. There will be other, more meaningfull things you can do with your life.

And feel free to use sarcasm whenever you want. But at least try to be good at it.

 

[kerelybonto]

Thanks for the assurance, mbriant. I was wondering what the hell I was going to do with my $160k education when I get out of this place.

You do know what an example is, right? Well, just in case -- that thread was an example. It's a specific instance that offers insight into a general theme. As I wrote more than once in this thread -- your memory's all right, isn't it? -- I created this thread to address the series of such thread closures that I've witnessed in my short stay here.

As I mentioned, carlo's thread reminded me of what I consider somewhat overbearing, unnecessary moderation. If you want to discuss the one example I pulled up, fine. You'll notice that my point is very valid: an intelligent discussion involving multiple people was closed because of one comment that had been deleted anyway. Kind of like carlo's thread (well, except that that was an entirely different kind of thread).

By the way, who are you quoting with your cute "never forget" statement? When you quote something, it's supposed to have been said/written before. And if you want me to judge your actions as something other than a moderator, I'll be happy to consider you a whining prick who'd rather be an ******* than help address a valid criticism.

kerleybonto

 

[kerelybonto]

And I can't believe you just edited your post to include another last-line jab. Jesus Christ.

kerelybonto

 

[mbriant]

$160k education !!! Woooo. I'm impressed. You must be really, really smart. Does that line help you meet women?

Quote:

I'll be happy to consider you a whining prick who'd rather be an ******* than help address a valid criticism.

I'll consider that to be a direct, and rather crude personal attack. But I'll let it slide this time. Consider this your first and last warning however.

What exactly is your solution to your "valid criticism"? Threads should never be locked? Threads may be locked but only if the wise and highly educated kerelybonto thinks it's OK?

Seriously, how would a highly educated person like yourself deal with this sort of thing?

 

[carlo]

i have to admit that i've grown weary of the head-fi drama, but this has been a long time coming for some people and i think its important to have regular members and not moderators (some quite frankly need to apply the "think before you post" mantra to themselves, and while i'm on a tangent

i applaud the addition of nick to that staff) respond.

as a whole the moderation staff does a pretty good job, take the "give me a dollar" post for example: obviously some people didn't find it funny, but the mods took my normal demeanor on this forum and gave me the benefit of the doubt. we need to grant them the same courtesy when its obvious that they mean it in a positive content. mbriant has made clear (in a post in this thread) that he's fine with discussion on this board about any topic as long as it doesn't go over the line of a derragatory, personal, or likewise attack. i've talked with jude about head-fi's moderation in the past and i feel one of his big intents (jude, correct me if i'm wrong) is for head-fi to be a community. a place where a small group of guys with hifi in common can come and chill; to be corny think "cheers" on the internet. to carry the thought further, sometimes he has to '86 somebody or a conversation to keep his bar in check.

that thought process on jude's part is something that i don't think some members realize, and while it may leave something to be desired in terms of speaking one's mind, it also makes head-fi pretty ****ing cool. i come in here to have a beer and chat about stuff i find interesting, its just at my computer instead of in person. i don't want that to change.

i'm not reading that thread because its stupid. not interested in it. but i'm willing to give most members of the moderation staff (be mindfull that most moderators choose to speak their mind behind the scenes instead of on the forum) the benefit of the doubt. notice the participation level of this thread when you think of what the moderation staff provides you - i'd take a guess that the majority of them welcome interest in the forum and have thick enough skins to handle their chosen responsibilities. once again in my opinion not all of them are good at it, but most welcome critique. they get annoyed when they're attacked.

all that said, there's been threads closed that i didn't think should have been (the disclaimers at the top of my first two posts were as much for some of the mods as it was for members). i'm going to grab another beer and chill for a while with the hope that the moderation staff reads this and thinks about it, then goes back to chilling too.

 

[kerelybonto]

carlo, I disagree. I think mbriant and his "TOO ****ING BAD !!!" **** is exactly the problem, not part of what's good about Head-Fi's moderating team. I think I had a better opinion of the general situation ten minutes ago than I do now.

Anyway, I'm done. I'll continue to appreciate Head-Fi for the great audio resource that it is, and I'll avoid anything remotely inflammatory in the General Discussion forum. Probably the best solution all around.

kerelybonto

 

[CaptBubba]

I am a firm believer in "think before you post". There just doesn't seem to be enough accountability on this board. Somebody can come in, state something and catch next to no flak for it. Kind of like people do not associate screen names with the opinions people post using them.

I recall a member here referring to how he thought that a message board was more civil because people have to use their real names. Here people are not bound by that and if they piss enough people off they can just run away giggling and come back in a few days with a new name and a new bone to pick.

Also the quality of some people's posts more resembles an IM conversation. Perhaps instead of a "total posts" counter we need an "average length of posts" counter. It seems to me that the majority of these kinds of problems (threads going OT and people making generally dumb comments) are caused by people who have high posts/day ratios. Yes, that is a generalization and there are exceptions. I'm sorry for grouping them in with the rest. I personally have a hard time coming up with 1.3 psuedo-insightful comments per day, I fail to see how people can get up to the 6-10/day mark and still have any of them make sense.

Bottom line is I feel that many of the "conversations" that occur here and get locked never belonged on a disscussion board to begin with. They are more suited to IRC or IM.

 

[M Rael]

Quote:

Originally posted by kerelybonto I think mbriant and his "TOO ****ING BAD !!!" **** is exactly the problem, not part of what's good about Head-Fi's moderating team.

Oh I dont know.., there are always going to be possible points of intense difference of belief in the world. In general I dont think Head-fi is required to be a haven for such nitro-glycerin like exchanges to play themselves out. Nothing is ever settled, and it usually involves the moderators having to take a position on top of everything else that happens, and it usually means a certain percentage thinking that the moderator(s) suck.
It just seems to me that, you know, what makes a green lawn in your front yard so attrtactive is the absence of rocks, weeds, sticks, dog ****, empty beer cans, partially full beer cans, beer bottles, broken television sets, discarded barbie dolls with their heads missing, shotgun shell casings, motor oil stains, losing lottery tickets, ..you get the idea. The beauty comes as much from the absence of certain things as it does the presence of (green grass.)

For those that think the grass is greener on forums where NO moderation takes place? Or even for those that constantly test the limits of moderation
(yeah you you stupid ****!) (kidding!!!!)
you must learn: moderation is a creative as well as editorial process. This isnt a ****ing Freedom of Speech rally here, its a stinking headphone website (and I mean 'stinking' in the complimentary sense.)

 

[andrzejpw]

Quote:

Originally posted by Joe Bloggs I say we do like Ars Technica and open a new forum called 'Soap Box' or something like that--reserved for those 'serious' topics that almost inevitably turn into... You can go there if you want, but you have been warned

Imho, the soap box serves a much different purpose on ars. Basically, people post threads there that they KNOW are going to be controversial. Here, we don't have many(if any) threads like that. Sure, we could move threads that turned ugly into the "headfi soapbox" but that, imho, would be avoiding the issue. . .

 

[MacDEF]

Excellent posts, MRael and Carlo.

kerelybonto, mbriant's post was indeed a bit aggressive. But it was so more out of frustration than out of a refusal to listen to "constructive" criticism. Try to put yourself in the shoes of a moderator. We RARELY edit posts or close threads -- out of the tens of thousands of posts on Head-Fi, only a handful or two have been edited by moderators, and very few have been locked. For every post you personally think shouldn't have been closed, there are ten people who think another post should have been (we get emails/PMs all the time complaining that we under-moderate).

Moderation is tricky but it happens with a single goal in mind: making Head-Fi a community. The more flame-wars and personal attacks we allow, the more "acceptable" it becomes for people to act like jerks. It's a downward spiral. This isn't some guess or theory -- this is a fact of online discussion forums and lists. Head-Fi is considered to be a great community, and we intend to keep it that way. If people don't like the fact that they can't act like jerks here, they should go find another forum -- there are lots of them out there that will welcome them with open arms

The Member's Lounge does indeed exist for discussion of "off-topic" topics. However, that doesn't mean that the standard of conduct is thrown out the window.

mbriant's comments simply reflect some of the frustration that exists when people continually complain about moderation without realizing that if it weren't for the very moderation they are criticizing, Head-Fi wouldn't be the great forum, and great community, it is. Not everyone will agree with every moderation decision -- the very fact that moderation exists bothers some people. However, on the whole, I think it's fair to say that the reason Head-Fi is so welcoming and so civil is because problems are generally nipped in the bud.

 

[Magicthyse]

Ah, only if JMT hadn't PM'ed me... I'd have apologized and shut up if it was only Neruda and MBriant with their plain messages...

As I think I've said before, the standard of moderation here is very high. I think we probably don't thank you enough for that... Although you can get on your high horses a bit.

EDIT: No, make that a lot.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

kerelybonto,

It seems you are pissed by mbriant's string of 'too ****ing bad!' But can you point out anything above each instance of that line that you actually don't agree with? I sure can't

Are you just offended by the use of swear words or what?