[Ashirgo]

Honestly, if your system, headphones and music are really good, there is no such thing as soundstage, only you and music, which (to your surprise) may appear to be hardly noticeable, as (depending on recording) all harshness and other unpleasant phenomena are gone and then you are highly likely to forget about the playback (unless you are consciously focused on it, ie. not reading forums

). The same thing is true for these famous "details". Summing up, it is the final euphony that really matters

 

[intoart]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif You are talking bullhooey. Stop it.

Actually, I was giving the OP a correct definition of the term "soundstage". If you don't like it, I suggest you buzz off.

 

[Duggeh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by intoart /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually, I was attempting to give the OP what I think to be the correct definition of the term "soundstage". If you don't like it, I suggest you buzz off.

FTFY. As for someone "not liking it" that isn't the issue here. You've again got the wrong idea. Theres a difference between not liking what someone has to say and disagreeing with it.

 

[Mercuttio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by intoart /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually, I was giving the OP a correct definition of the term "soundstage". If you don't like it, I suggest you buzz off.

I have a pretty good idea about a thing called a peanut. I suspect that it is a bunch of green peas inside a walnut.

I will sell you some, as soon as I can find them.

If you don't want any of my pea nuts, I advise you to make like a tree and get out of here.

 

[xchagg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercuttio /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you don't want any of my pea nuts, I advise you to make like a tree and get out of here.

"It's leave, you idiot! Make like a tree, and leave." (BTTF)

I should put that on my Netflix queue sometime soon

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by intoart /img/forum/go_quote.gif Listen for the most subjectively "distant" sound that you can make out in each direction (front/back and up/down, not just left/right.) These define the surface of a region (ideally spherical, but more often football-shaped or dumbbell-shaped.) That region is the soundstage. The larger and more spherical it is, the better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by intoart /img/forum/go_quote.gif The region I was describing was the maximal region for a given headphone (not counting binaural sources.) I neither stated nor implied that all recordings will (or should) have a soundstage that large.

Quote:

Originally Posted by intoart /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually, I was giving the OP a correct definition of the term "soundstage". If you don't like it, I suggest you buzz off.

My problem with your "correct definition" is that it isn't correct. Here's an an example of an accepted (agreed upon my most so that there is common ground when understanding what the heck people are talking about) definition: Soundstage presentation -- the accuracy with which a reproducing system conveys audible information about the size, shape, and acoustical characteristics of the original recording space and the placement of the performers within it.

Your first quote makes no sense because it's describing...what? a region of what? the recording? the speakers or headphones? And, as someone else pointed out, "larger and more spherical" does not mean better at all.

Your second quote talks about maximal regions for given headphones. Again, maximal to what? What does "maximal" mean? How does that equate with "accuracy"? I understand that you are trying to help a listener locate spacial cues (which is fine), but to define width (?) placement (?).....I don't really know.... but if so, that's only one a part, and the "bigger is better" and use of "maximal region" type terms only confuse me.

Also, soundstage and headphones really don't go together, and I think folks, myself included, use the term here a bit too freely. Did you read DarthNut's piece on headstage vs. soundstage?

As to your comment to have me buzz off, it's not happening.

 

[The Monkey]

This is the part where intoart accuses you of "lying."

 

[intoart]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif Your first quote makes no sense because it's describing...what? a region of what? the recording? the speakers or headphones? And, as someone else pointed out, "larger and more spherical" does not mean better at all.

It makes perfect sense, but perhaps that is because I am a mathematician and therefore accustomed to describing a space in terms of a locus of points(and to working with maxima and minima.)

Of course, the distances cannot be measured since they are subjective, but they are very definitely unique to the particular headphones and define a distinct region (besides soundstage is inherently subjective.) Perhaps, instead of calling this region the soundstage, you would prefer me to call it the maximum extent of the soundstage, since it is the greatest distance from which any sound can appear to be from the listener.

Yes, larger and more spherical is definitely better since that implies both that the headphones are capable of rendering a large hall convincingly and that they can do so in the full three dimensions.

 

[Stephen Murphy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by intoart /img/forum/go_quote.gif Unfortunately, there are very few binaural CDs available, and most of those that there are have mediocre content, as well as being rather old (I sold more than a dozen because the content made them not worth repeated listening after the initial novelty wore off.) I know of only a tiny handful of good ones, all of which I own. What we need are a lot more new, high-quality binaural CDs by our favorite bands!

The binaural demos with the shaking matchbox and dogs running by are pretty much novelty things, as you suggest, and get old pretty quickly. The Milwaukee Symphony does a lot of their material in binaural and it is available from their website. My favourite binaural things are by Dallas Simpson who does a lot of "walkabout" recordings along the British coast and also did a classic fireworks binaural recording. All his things are amazing.

I agree, I would love to hear more bands use binaural recording. It sounds to me like parts of Gentle Giant Octopus has some binaural elements in it. What are the recordings you have enjoyed and kept?

 

[Oggranak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duggeh /img/forum/go_quote.gif Read this: http://www.thismanwillkillyou.com/bi...ega2Review.pdf

Thanks for that link, it actually helped me hear and appreciate the 'soundstage' from my headphones and stop listening for headstage (and, of course, it was very insightful).

 

[Oggranak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Murphy /img/forum/go_quote.gif It sounds to me like parts of Gentle Giant Octopus has some binaural elements in it.

The intro to The Boys in the Band with the guy laughing and the coin making noise sounds surprisingly 'real' but I wouldn't say it's quite binaural-sounding. It does testify to the spacious feel of the album, though, that both of us had thought of this before.

Edit: Sorry for the two posts, sometimes I forget that I've already just responded to a thread, heh.

 

[Drumonron]

Soundstage - The area between two speakers that appears to the listener to be occupied by sonic images. Like a real stage, a soundstage should have width, depth, and height.

-from the headfi glossary of sound desciptors and I can't say it any clearer.

 

[Stephen Murphy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oggranak /img/forum/go_quote.gif The intro to The Boys in the Band with the guy laughing and the coin making noise sounds surprisingly 'real' but I wouldn't say it's quite binaural-sounding. It does testify to the spacious feel of the album, though, that both of us had thought of this before.

The coin spin was one bit as well as some of the instrumentation on Raconteur Troubadour and Knots (the Xylophone). Of course I don't know for sure. It just seemed to sound even more "correct" through headphones than it does through my speakers, and I must admit via speakers sounds very good. Gosh that's a great album.

Can's Flow Motion says it was mixed using a dummy head but it doesn't sound
binaural at all to me.

 

[intoart]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Murphy /img/forum/go_quote.gif What are the recordings you have enjoyed and kept?

My favorite by far is Up Close by Ottmar Liebert & Luna Negra. (Of course, that has as much to do with being a recent release by a band I really like as it does with the binaural recording.)
Two others are by Roger Waters (one nominally a "Pink Floyd" album): The Final Cut and The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking. These are described as "holophonic", but is sounds the same as binaural to me.
One is a nature recording called The Living Air which is the most impressive demonstration of the binaural effect that I have yet heard. I actually want to swat the bugs that fly past my head!
Finally, there is Flow Motion by Can. I must agree, though, that the binaural affect is less pronounced on it than on the others.

Oh, also, albums recorded in "Q Sound" seem very close to binaural. A good example of this is The Soul Cages by Sting.

As I said, I would really love to see new binaural CDs from some of my favorite artists. Certain musicians would especially benefit from it due to their style. These include Kate Bush, Peter Gabriel, Blue Man Group, and vitrually any smooth jazz or new age recording.

 

[Scooterboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duggeh /img/forum/go_quote.gif Read this: http://www.thismanwillkillyou.com/bi...ega2Review.pdf

Thanks Duggeh........You obviously got this right. This is a good read and for me a good way to fully understand "Headstage vs. Soundstage.

It got me thinking again ........great post and thanks for sharing.