[Sleestack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dknightd But IMO you are better off treating the room as much as possible first, then use room correction if still needed. I prefer speakers. Headphones are an adequate substitute if need dictates. There is no doubt you can buy a better resolving pair of headphones for less money than speakers, but speakers just seem much more natural to me. One thing I have noticed, lots of people have more than one set of headphones in the same room, but not many people have more than one set of speakers in a room.

While acoustic treatment is always beneficial, 99% of rooms, treated or not, could benefit from advanced room correction (or at the very least, EQing). The various advanced room correction systems available today put a perfect speaker system within the grasp of every audiophile. You don't need to turn a room into an aesthetic disaster to achieve stunning sound. You also can't use a setup like mine (e.g. corner load subs) without room correction. It just won't work.

 

[edstrelow]

Speakers vs headphones is a mixed bag. My headphone set-up is a purist system, just the source, amp and phones. Its very hard to get as good results with a purist speaker set-up.

I still like my speaker system with a digital processing for ambience and an equalizer with a built in measuring system to give a flat response. The listening room is also pretty good, some non-parallel surfaces and reasonable, unequal dimensions.

A properly equalized speaker system can be much more neutral than even the best headphones. It is the remarkable what this neutrality does to the perception of the musical source. Basically, there ia a sense of correctness and balance to the audio mix which can contribute a lot to appreciating the the musical and artistic values of the performance.

You can try to equalize headphones, but there is no easy way to stick a mic into the phones and get a correct response. I also find that my Staxen really detect the subtle degradation produced by plugging an equalizer into the system far more than the speakers.

Nevertheless, I tend to listen more to my phones, (various Staxen, especially Sigmas) for the detail and because the family occupies the living room. When they are gone on visits, I use the speakers more.

However recently the equalizer died and the quality of the speaker set-up suffered quite a bit. I am still working on a fix.

 

[Sleestack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by edstrelow A properly equalized speaker system can be much more neutral than even the best headphones. It is the remarkable what this neutrality does to the perception of the musical source. Basically, there ia a sense of correctness and balance to the audio mix which can contribute a lot to appreciating the the musical and artistic values of the performance.

The bias against equalization that some audiophiles have has always been baffling to me. I don't EQ my headphones because there aren't acoustic issues to deal with and I just use different headphones to achieve any difference in sound I may want. Nevertheless, nothing wrong with using an EQ in a headphone setup either. Many of today's recordings benefit from slight attenuation in the 10-20khz range.

 

[883dave]

Sleestack

you mention "Have you ever tried advanced room correction?"

Could you advise what product you use for this? Is it per-chance the Rives unit?

 

[883dave]

The major problem with equilization is not the room, rather the recording.

To get the best result for an equlizer one is always adjusting the different frequencies, to each new album and in some cases each indivisual track....it is sort of like adjusting the VTA on a turntable, every different thickness of record must have the VTA set to get the best out of that perticular recording.

 

[Sleestack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 883dave Sleestack you mention "Have you ever tried advanced room correction?" Could you advise what product you use for this? Is it per-chance the Rives unit?

Sorry, I edited my original post b/c when I reread it, I realized it sounded unnecessarily argumentative.

In any case, no, not the Rives unit, although I will use them for some acoustic designs. Their unit primarily addresses freq. response. The more advanced systems utilize impulse response to address freq. resp., level and very importantly, time issues.

I us the TACT units. The TCS MKII in my HT andthe RCS 2.2.XP in my 2 channel. The TCS MKIII will be released soon.

DEQx also has an excellent system, although the form factor is terrible and the user interface is a nightnmare.

Audyssey's system that is incorporated into the Denon receivers is very limited and not comparable to the TACT or DEQx, but they are releasing a standalone system that should be more robust.

For 2 channel, I have heard people have had great success with very affordable freeware solutions. If you are interested, I can point you to some resources.

 

[Ingo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dknightd Is that your picture in your avitar? You are the image of my younger brother 20 years ago. He also put his fingers where they did not belong. . .

hehehe...

In a third grade sort of way.

 

[Sleestack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 883dave The major problem with equilization is not the room, rather the recording. .

Both are major problems. In my case, I am able to easily isolate and adjust both. I have nine room correction target curves. I also have nine programmed EQ curves, but find that I only use two of them because room correction curves can be designed to effectively address both issues.

 

[nelamvr6]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duggeh When I was a kid I took the covers off my dads Monitor Audio floorstanders and poked the drivers in with my fingers. This was only a short while after I'd gotten in trouble for feeding toast to the betamax.

Your dad must be a saint, otherwise you wouldn't be here to tell us about it!

 

[883dave]

"Sorry, I edited my original post b/c when I reread it, I realized it sounded unnecessarily argumentative"

Not from the way I read it....

After I posted I looked at your system

, thanks for answering though.

I am somewhat confused as to how the unit works. By impulse response, would this mean a microphone in the unit and / or a remote microphone? I understand how it could get rid of standing and slap waves but as to base modes?

Any ideas?

By the way nice set up

 

[Redo]

Headphones are nice because you listen to them anywhere, anytime, without bothering anybody. Not only that, but you get a very clean resolving sound for much less money.


With that said, speakers are my true love. Headphones can be more resolving, but even a cheaper stereo setup is far better for music IMO. It's just you can't turn up the volume and enjoy music in your own privacy much fo the time (at least I cannot). And the money involved in high end speakers makes me cry alot more than headphones.


Monitor Audio speakers are a work of art for the price

 

[883dave]

I see it has pre-programed settings, so you can tailor it to your room problems.

Answered then asked....thanks

 

[Sleestack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 883dave "Sorry, I edited my original post b/c when I reread it, I realized it sounded unnecessarily argumentative" Not from the way I read it.... After I posted I looked at your system , thanks for answering though. I am somewhat confused as to how the unit works. By impulse response, would this mean a microphone in the unit and / or a remote microphone? I understand how it could get rid of standing and slap waves but as to base modes? Any ideas? By the way nice set up

You can let the system auto correct, but ideally, you use the software to visually design your own curves based on measured responses. You can see exactly what is going in your room and design and store various target curves to suit your needs.

A microphone is used and the test tone is not your typical sweep tone. Rather it is a series of 3 pulses that is sent out up to 90 times. It measures freq. response, level and time issues.

Extreme nulls of 10db or greater can't be compltely corrected. Typically, drawing a dip in your curve is advisable.

gotta run....

 

[J-Pak]

So for a 2 channel setup (without sub) the TACT RCS 2.2XP does a really good job? Is anything else required?

Just want to start reading up early

 

[nelamvr6]

I guess I'm old fashioned when it comes to room correction. I'd rather go about things the old school way, but repositioning the speakers, applying reasonable room treatments, etc.

I still have a deep seated suspicion when it comes to altering the signal in any way. I don't even use tone controls for example.

I understand that the tech involved is created by music enthusiasts who will do their best to treat the music with care, but these feeling have been ingrained in me for decades, I doubt I'll be able to shake them off very easily.