[jonta_dj]

I've been in this hobby for many years now. I started out by listening to music through sound cards of differenct prices, onboard to expensive ones. Then I've moved on to external DACs and relatively expensive integrated solutions.
 
I'm currently listening to my music mostly through speakers but I have 2 head phone amps and the DAC I'm using is an Audio GD Dac 19.
 
Out of curiosity I plugged in my samsung galaxy mobile phone just to hear what it sounds like. What is quite disturbing though is that I don't hear any difference between my phone and the external DAC. I've been listening back and forth for a few days now and I can't really tell a difference. I also plugged in my iPhone and I can't honestly tell if it sounds different than the 2 other sources. I've been listening through both my speakers and my head phone.
 
I used to think there was such a big difference when I first started out through all upgrades and now I wouldn't be able to tell one from the other if I didn't see what source I'm listening to.
 
Has the DACs in the phones got so good today that they perform as well as the external DAC I'm using or have I just been imaging things the whole time?

 

[Chodi]

There's no mention of what headphones you are using but even modest headphones should show a pronounced difference between your phones and a Dac19. As you yourself might have judged there is something wrong with your system or respectfully, your ears. Dac's have improved to the point where they are all measurably good to excellent. Still, the individual implementation  of each will cause varying results that should be clearly audible in any good system. I recall seeing a thread on this forum where one guy compared several brand name dacs and found it hard to tell them apart. I believe there is more truth to that then many on this forum would admit. Still, you should be getting clearly better results from your Dac19 than your phone as a source.

 

[theveterans]

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733-19.html
From Tom's article, today's on-board DACs sounds on-par with dedicated DACs. If you're comparing today's cheap laptop on-board DAC vs external DAC, you'll hear the difference. If it's on a modern smartphone, it'll be extremely hard to tell the difference. The article above has a very good Realtek DAC which is only available on high end motherboards.

 

[jonta_dj]

Thank you very much for your reply. I have had thoughts about upgrading to a Yulong D200 after reading many positive reviews but got a bit skeptical. Maybe I need something "much better" to hear differences. I will read the article you are linking to and hope it will shed some light on the subject.

 

[jonta_dj]

I use Sennheiser HD650 head phones. The amps are x-can v3 and Audio GD C-2.
 
There is nothing wrong with the system setup. I'm leaning towards what theveterans says that modern DACs have improved so much that they might perform equal or better than old DACs. I'm still curious though to hear if other people have experienced the same thing or would be willing to give it a try.

 

[castleofargh]

simply go to sound science and you'll find that almost everybody on that closely watched penitentiary section of the forum thinks just like you.
once you've remove expectation bias from the pricey pretty boxes, and also removed the volume differences from one DAC to another, then differences are usually very subtle or simply not audible in normal listening.
of course if you go toward weird wrong stuff like NOS dacs or dacs that don't actually have a flat frequency response, then there will be changes.
 
but samsung and apple both usually stick to mostly clean and flat signature, so no surprise here if you find them to sound the same/very very close.

 

[Chodi]

I believe many of the experienced people on this forum would take serious issue with that Toms article. Becoming an audiophile is a learning process, a journey. Taking an average non-audiophile and doing critical listening comparisons has limited value in my opinion. Many of us here have taken years to train  our ears and our senses to appreciate the difference. The Toms article to me has the same value as those who think Beats headphones are high end. 
 
I agree that with high end dacs the differences are more subtle but to say that an iphone will sound the same as something like a Yulong DA8, or Matrix X Sabre (just two examples) to me is like saying that mp3 is as good as 24/96 master recordings. If that were really true than much of this forum would be useless. That would suggest that most of the users here are the product of some mass hysteria.  

 

[jonta_dj]

I can't comment on how much experience or how audiophile the author of the Toms article is compared to people here. I have been in the area for quite a few years and play several instruments my self, not professionally, but in orchestras etc and I picture my self being a bit audiophile. When I've been listening to the DACs I've come across I've been comparing many times how various acoustic instruments sound after going through the different DACs. I also listen to and tryting to pick out other details and much talked about terms such as timing and PRAT.
 
As I said earlier, I used to hear much difference when I started out many, many years ago, but the current DACS I own and have tested aren't that much different in their sound presentation. If anything at all. These include a Samsung Galaxy phone, iPhone 4, Audio GD DAC-19, Linn Majik DS-i, and Hegel HD11 (that I borrowed recently). I have other older phones; and computers with DACs integrated on their motherboards but I haven't tested them enough to give any comments yet.
 

 but samsung and apple both usually stick to mostly clean and flat signature, so no surprise here if you find them to sound the same/very very close.

This is interesting.

 

[Billheiser]

It's good news - if you are getting good music experience thru the various dac's, that's fantastic. Now spend DAC money on concerts and music!
No need to train or punish ourselves to seek differences in gear. When I hear differences, I just hear them. If I don't, then I sure don't need to buy that piece of gear.

 

[jonta_dj]

You are right, maybe I should just enjoy listening to music and not try to push it.
 
I'm still tempted about the Yulong D200 though and was about to buy it the other day. If there would be an improvement, I'm all ears. I love improvements.

 

[castleofargh]

  You are right, maybe I should just enjoy listening to music and not try to push it.
 
I'm still tempted about the Yulong D200 though and was about to buy it the other day. If there would be an improvement, I'm all ears. I love improvements.

the piece of gear with the most imbalance, distortion, uneven frequency response, is the headphone. so that's usually where you can really find obvious and audible improvements. then sometimes you need another amp because the headphone is a special beast with needs (for some more volts, for some more current, for some both. no background noise, low impedance ouptut....), but given the relative defaults of a DAC compared to the other 2, I'm gonna say that a basic DAC is already amazing. I really can't see DAC, AMP, and headphone as 3 equally important pieces of a sound system.

 

[swspiers]

I started auditioning some upp-end cans over the past few months: Grado GS1000e, Hifiman HE-560, and the HE-400i.
 
While listening to the Grado's, which are the most micro-detailed headphone I have ever heard, I noticed that I heard absolutely no difference between the Schiit Bifrost Uber and the DAC's in the Oppo-BDP-103.  Not in any aspect of the sound.  I sold the Uber, and have not regretted it one bit.
 
Good music is still euphoric, bad music is still fun.  I now have money to focus on other things.

 

[money4me247]

  I believe many of the experienced people on this forum would take serious issue with that Toms article. Becoming an audiophile is a learning process, a journey. Taking an average non-audiophile and doing critical listening comparisons has limited value in my opinion. Many of us here have taken years to train  our ears and our senses to appreciate the difference. The Toms article to me has the same value as those who think Beats headphones are high end. 
 
I agree that with high end dacs the differences are more subtle but to say that an iphone will sound the same as something like a Yulong DA8, or Matrix X Sabre (just two examples) to me is like saying that mp3 is as good as 24/96 master recordings. If that were really true than much of this forum would be useless. That would suggest that most of the users here are the product of some mass hysteria.  

 
lol... I think that attitude is silly. we all have ears & we can all distinguish sonic differences. the average non-audiophile might not be able to describe the difference using audiophile vocabulary, but if there is an actual difference, everyone can hear it.
 
People like Beats because they are fashion statement and people with them appreciate the bass boost. If you let them listen to a different pair of nicer headphones, they can hear the differences. Most of them just haven't tried anything else or simply like that bass-heavy signature.
 
considering that the pricing of DACs jump drastically really quickly, I would strongly hope that the more expensive stand-alone dacs sound significantly better than onboard built-in dac components. however, in my personal experience, I have found the sonic improvements to be extremely subtle, and I wouldn't be surprised if 'audiophiles' could be easily fooled what is what in a blind direct ABX test. there have even been studies done like this that show most people who think they are audiophiles struggle with blind comparisons. Realistically, the sonic differences between well-implemented DACs are pretty insignificant, and I would bet if you remove expectation bias and did a straight blind test, the results of what sounds the best would be extremely surprising and have no correlation with the price point of the dac.

 

[money4me247]

the piece of gear with the most imbalance, distortion, uneven frequency response, is the headphone. so that's usually where you can really find obvious and audible improvements. then sometimes you need another amp because the headphone is a special beast with needs (for some more volts, for some more current, for some both. no background noise, low impedance ouptut....), but given the relative defaults of a DAC compared to the other 2, I'm gonna say that a basic DAC is already amazing. I really can't see DAC, AMP, and headphone as 3 equally important pieces of a sound system.

+1. headphones are hands-down the most important part of your set-up. An amp and dac offers such minor sonic upgrades, I personally don't think it is usually worth its price.

 

[Kliesen]

And here I was thinking that I was mad after upgrading from Fiio E17 to Schiit Modi and not hearing a difference.