Hugo TT 2 by Chord Electronics - The Official Thread
Feb 20, 2024 at 5:36 AM Post #18,721 of 18,881
Hi,
can a TT2 benefit from an AC power line filter and shielded AC cable into the delivered AC-DC converter?

According to Rob Watts, the TT2 doesn't need a special linear AC-DC power converter. To my understanding, the internal components are driven by the capacitors of the TT2. Does that mean that everything related to electricity provision towards the capacitors doesn't matter at all and the sound quality can not be influenced further through such measures?
 
Last edited:
Feb 20, 2024 at 7:34 AM Post #18,722 of 18,881
Hi,
can a TT2 benefit from an AC power line filter and shielded AC cable into the delivered AC-DC converter?

According to Rob Watts, the TT2 doesn't need a special linear AC-DC power converter. To my understanding, the internal components are driven by the capacitors of the TT2. Does that mean that everything related to electricity provision towards the capacitors doesn't matter at all and the sound quality can not be influenced further through such measures?
The mscaler has more benefit than the tt2 with a decent clean LPS PSU, that is correct. It is beneficial but in my experience, if you want to replace PSU, start with the mscaler first
 
Feb 20, 2024 at 9:51 AM Post #18,723 of 18,881
As someone who's about to sell his M Scaler I'd like to chime in...I was definitely underwhelmed when I first used it with my TT2. I had to do extensive A/B tests to get it. Eventually it DID click, and without it music does sound a little thinner.

But blind test? Couldn't swear I could tell.

The major thing for me is that the M Scaler cost me £2600 used on ebay. The TT2 cost £2400.

At some point there has to be a formulation made between cost and performance, and for something to cost MORE than my DAC – and the TT2 is spectacular compared to what went before it – it has to be significantly improved.

And this is with Wave Storm BNCs too. They're fantastic. Make a huge difference compared to stock cables. Everything you've heard about them is true. But when I think what else I could buy for nearly £3500 combined cost of the Waves and M Scaler, it's not good value for money to me.

I'm fine with accepting at a certain level, you won't get exponential improvements in a system. But where does that argument end? Do I spend £300 to get rid of a bit of USB noise from my computer or £3000? It's all relative to performance, and for me the M Scaler and Wave cables don't represent a big enough improvement for the cost.

I could either keep them or buy some ZMF Atriums instead, or some other headphone that adds colours to my music.

That said, many others would disagree strongly with me and that's all good too.

Only you can decide whether it's worth it. My 2 cents.
As with any component in a system, the benefit differential varies. My TT2 & M Scaler are the heart of my loudspeaker setup. The kids are at the age where headphones are no longer necessary for my listening habit. I tried the TT2 with my previous Linn amplifier, it really did nothing. Introduce the M Scaler and still no improvement. When I removed the Linn and tried the TT2 through a Naim setup, WOW! Add the M Scaler to the TT2 and I couldn't help myself, I bought the Chord devices, plus Naim did very well out of me.

Now when I try my Grado headphones either via the Naim or directly from TT2, I can absolutely agree with you. The M Scaler changes the sound, but I don't think I'd have bought it if two years ago when I only ever used headphones. That's strange as the Grado's have such a wonderful open and airy sound quality. This was what amazed me when the TT2 had the M Scaler before it when I tried them for the first time.

As this is head-fi I'm aware that my using the TT2 & M Scaler for primarily loudspeaker use (my Mojo2 is still my preference for headphones), this experience may not be particularly valid aside from showing how important the role is of the speaker (whatever the size), and probably your choice of amplification.
 
Feb 20, 2024 at 9:56 AM Post #18,724 of 18,881
As with any component in a system, the benefit differential varies. My TT2 & M Scaler are the heart of my loudspeaker setup. The kids are at the age where headphones are no longer necessary for my listening habit. I tried the TT2 with my previous Linn amplifier, it really did nothing. Introduce the M Scaler and still no improvement. When I removed the Linn and tried the TT2 through a Naim setup, WOW! Add the M Scaler to the TT2 and I couldn't help myself, I bought the Chord devices, plus Naim did very well out of me.

Now when I try my Grado headphones either via the Naim or directly from TT2, I can absolutely agree with you. The M Scaler changes the sound, but I don't think I'd have bought it if two years ago when I only ever used headphones. That's strange as the Grado's have such a wonderful open and airy sound quality. This was what amazed me when the TT2 had the M Scaler before it when I tried them for the first time.

As this is head-fi I'm aware that my using the TT2 & M Scaler for primarily loudspeaker use (my Mojo2 is still my preference for headphones), this experience may not be particularly valid aside from showing how important the role is of the speaker (whatever the size), and probably your choice of amplification.
It for sure affects different systems/different synergies. That much is clear on the M Scaler thread where there's plenty of speakers chat.

Glad it's working for you :)
 
Feb 20, 2024 at 11:14 AM Post #18,725 of 18,881
The mscaler has more benefit than the tt2 with a decent clean LPS PSU, that is correct. It is beneficial but in my experience, if you want to replace PSU, start with the mscaler first
I am not talking specifically about LPS, but want to pose a more general question. I am wondering if ANY device in the power supply chain could have an impact on the sound of the TT2 at all. The LPS statement from Rob Watts was only an example that led me to this question. The question is, is it true that only the capacitors in the TT2 feed the dac/amp components and that any PSU device is irrelevant to the sound generation process? Or is the situation more difficult?
 
Feb 20, 2024 at 11:19 AM Post #18,726 of 18,881
There are two things that impacted TT the most in my experience. 1) pre amp and 2) music server. Imo I’d put xlr interconnects and hp cables ahead of lps and chords but I have it all so, got to cover all the basis.
 
Feb 20, 2024 at 12:47 PM Post #18,727 of 18,881
I am not talking specifically about LPS, but want to pose a more general question. I am wondering if ANY device in the power supply chain could have an impact on the sound of the TT2 at all. The LPS statement from Rob Watts was only an example that led me to this question. The question is, is it true that only the capacitors in the TT2 feed the dac/amp components and that any PSU device is irrelevant to the sound generation process? Or is the situation more difficult?
Don't waste your time as the TT-2 filters and in my opinion don't go down the rabbit hole of chasing power supplies. Every person will give you a different story about power supplies and all kinds of experiences, just use the stock supply and enjoy your music.
 
Feb 20, 2024 at 12:51 PM Post #18,728 of 18,881
I am not talking specifically about LPS, but want to pose a more general question. I am wondering if ANY device in the power supply chain could have an impact on the sound of the TT2 at all. The LPS statement from Rob Watts was only an example that led me to this question. The question is, is it true that only the capacitors in the TT2 feed the dac/amp components and that any PSU device is irrelevant to the sound generation process? Or is the situation more difficult?

Changing the PSU to something like farad 3, definitely alter the sound of TT2. It adds noticeable body through all spectrum with a little more spacious soundstage. Whether you like the change in sound or not may depend on your preference and synergise with the system. With similar budget, I prefer to add DDC to TT2 though (i'm a laptop listener).

p.s: My DDC is Singxer Su6, which also use kind of "super capacitor" as PSU. Same case here, I can easily hear the difference in sound when I add Farad 3 in the chain.
 
Last edited:
Feb 20, 2024 at 2:24 PM Post #18,729 of 18,881
Hi,
can a TT2 benefit from an AC power line filter and shielded AC cable into the delivered AC-DC converter?

According to Rob Watts, the TT2 doesn't need a special linear AC-DC power converter. To my understanding, the internal components are driven by the capacitors of the TT2. Does that mean that everything related to electricity provision towards the capacitors doesn't matter at all and the sound quality can not be influenced further through such measures?
Slightly different take for me. I use the stick SMPS because when I’ve tried anything different it’s not been any better. Any gains in body or stage width have always come at the expense of stage depth and height, as well as ambient cues. That indicates to me that low level detail has has been obscured.
Hiwever, I do use a better power cable to limit the noise that might flow from the SMPS back into the power distribution. I added them to TT2 and M Scaler at the same time. It might just be for piece of mind and I might be fooling myself, but it felt a little calmer and quieter. Less bright.
 
Feb 20, 2024 at 3:09 PM Post #18,730 of 18,881
Slightly different take for me. I use the stick SMPS because when I’ve tried anything different it’s not been any better. Any gains in body or stage width have always come at the expense of stage depth and height, as well as ambient cues. That indicates to me that low level detail has has been obscured.
Hiwever, I do use a better power cable to limit the noise that might flow from the SMPS back into the power distribution. I added them to TT2 and M Scaler at the same time. It might just be for piece of mind and I might be fooling myself, but it felt a little calmer and quieter. Less bright.
Exactly what I have found, I think I'll trust the designer when he tells me don't bother using a "linear" power supply, yes I'll take his advice instead of a bunch of audiohophile tweakos 😂
 
Feb 20, 2024 at 3:33 PM Post #18,731 of 18,881
Exactly what I have found, I think I'll trust the designer when he tells me don't bother using a "linear" power supply, yes I'll take his advice instead of a bunch of audiohophile tweakos 😂
I did that at first as well with the qutest and tt2 mscaler etc… but eventough it is not like you get a night and day difference, it did made the sound calmer smoother in a good way.

That does not mean it sounds awfull with the included smps psu, it sounds more than fine
 
Last edited:
Feb 20, 2024 at 5:39 PM Post #18,732 of 18,881
Interesting aside re the Chord smps. My Antipodes server was offered an upgrade at the factory and the major tweak was to remove the linear power supply and replace it with an smps with some external filtering. The usb board was reclocked as well so I am not sure what improved the sound. To those wondering if the smps Chord supplies affects the sound is to pull the dc jack from the TT2 and listen to super caps only with no possibility of ground currents. No change to my ears. Some day I will try the mscaler on battery just to see (hear).
 
Feb 20, 2024 at 7:11 PM Post #18,733 of 18,881
Interesting aside re the Chord smps. My Antipodes server was offered an upgrade at the factory and the major tweak was to remove the linear power supply and replace it with an smps with some external filtering. The usb board was reclocked as well so I am not sure what improved the sound. To those wondering if the smps Chord supplies affects the sound is to pull the dc jack from the TT2 and listen to super caps only with no possibility of ground currents. No change to my ears. Some day I will try the mscaler on battery just to see (hear).
This is precisely what Rob Watts said, you can remove the SMPS and listen, there is zero difference. There are studies that show that when there are no problems, the human brain finds problems to solve, even imaginary ones. 😂 😂 😆
 
Feb 20, 2024 at 9:29 PM Post #18,734 of 18,881
Interesting aside re the Chord smps. My Antipodes server was offered an upgrade at the factory and the major tweak was to remove the linear power supply and replace it with an smps with some external filtering. The usb board was reclocked as well so I am not sure what improved the sound. To those wondering if the smps Chord supplies affects the sound is to pull the dc jack from the TT2 and listen to super caps only with no possibility of ground currents. No change to my ears. Some day I will try the mscaler on battery just to see (hear).
Bruno Putzey’s was interviewed on Darko’s podcast and specifically address LPS vs SMPS. Worth a listen
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top