[GhiAB]

How are we going to eliminate the noise from entering the ground plane

Would/t the ferrite cables (Wave Storm Reference for example) take care of the RF that could transmit from the Scaler to the DAC? Adding a LPS would take care of the rest of the noise or not?

 

[muski]

I'm a new owner of an M Scaler and I'm wondering what adding a Phoenix USB to my chain would do? I would only listen through headphones.
Unfortunately, I cannot borrow the unit, it would be a blind purchase.
My chain: PC/Roon/Tidal-Niagara 1200-Zen Mk3-Tt2-M Scaler-Utopia/Empyrean.

I think the improvements from both the Phoenix USB and Phoenix NET depend on the quality of the signal generated by the other components and the resolving power of the DAC at the end of the chain. My opticalRendu streamer is an outstanding streamer, but it did benefit from the Phoenix USB. No idea if that would be true with the Zen Mk3, hence worth a demo.

The same is true of routers—my ASUS is incredibly noisy, and so the Phoenix NET offered a noticeable improvement.

 

[GhiAB]

I think the improvements from both the Phoenix USB and Phoenix NET depend on the quality of the signal generated by the other components and the resolving power of the DAC at the end of the chain. My opticalRendu streamer is an outstanding streamer, but it did benefit from the Phoenix USB. No idea if that would be true with the Zen Mk3, hence worth a demo.

The same is true of routers—my ASUS is incredibly noisy, and so the Phoenix NET offered a noticeable improvement.

I can add that I found a big improvement changing the Node2i for the Zenith...big, big improvement. And than adding the Phoenix USB was again a big improvement and than adding the Phenix NET was an improved although nat as big.

 

[Rins]

Thanks for the suggestions on incorporating the Phoenix USB into my build. I just borrowed it from the dealer. I will not return it, I was positively suprised by the increase in dynamics and stronger bass.

 

[FunkyBassMan]

Thanks for the suggestions on incorporating the Phoenix USB into my build. I just borrowed it from the dealer. I will not return it, I was positively suprised by the increase in dynamics and stronger bass.

Hasn't @Rob Watts said reclockers don't add anything? Or maybe I am misremembering.

 

[GuiltyRocker]

Hasn't @Rob Watts said reclockers don't add anything? Or maybe I am misremembering.

Yup, pretty much useless. If you see the jitter levels of the Chord DACs they are pretty much nothing, why bother re-clocking?

 

[piguetpolo]

Yup, pretty much useless. If you see the jitter levels of the Chord DACs they are pretty much nothing, why bother re-clocking?

Yes, Chord DACs are jitter resistant, but everything before it isn't necessarily…

So reclocking upstream does help the Chord DAC downstream.

 

[alishafai]

Yes, Chord DACs are jitter resistant, but everything before it isn't necessarily…

So reclocking upstream does help the Chord DAC downstream.

This is what I am thinking as well, but if I am wrong, I would appreciate the education. I use my MacBook Pro as a source, where I go USB out from it into MS, and then dual BNC into TT2.

Is it not correct to think/believe that there is benefit to be had because the USB output from the MacBook Pro is imperfect?

 

[piguetpolo]

This is what I am thinking as well, but if I am wrong, I would appreciate the education. I use my MacBook Pro as a source, where I go USB out from it into MS, and then dual BNC into TT2.

Is it not correct to think/believe that there is benefit to be had because the USB output from the MacBook Pro is imperfect?

Any direct connection from a computer USB direct to a DAC is noisy and some kind of isolation is required for the best sound.

In my experience, I've even noticed a noise reduction bypassing the direct Mac Mini USB connection and instead, connecting the DAC to the USB hub inputs built into the back of my Apple Studio Display. That's a passive approach and does help to isolate noise but not jitter.

A DDC reclocker can provide the benefits of both, especially when fed with clean linear power.

 

[pkny]

Yes, Chord DACs are jitter resistant, but everything before it isn't necessarily…

So reclocking upstream does help the Chord DAC downstream.

Source jitter doesn't matter on Chord DAC. RF noise is another story.

From Rob:

Toslink is the reference digital input, as it can't inject RF and correlated noise into the DACs ground plane, and with my DPLL and pulse array any source jitter is completely eliminated, so we do not need to worry about source jitter.

With the M scaler and Dave on the pre-production prototype M scaler I could hear no consistent change from using USB or optical - but YMMV depending upon your source.

Rob' comment on re-clocker:

...So do not bother with re-clockers as source jitter is completely eliminated.

 

[piguetpolo]

Rob' comment on re-clocker:

Because Rob Watts has a strong opinion regarding his design and you agree with that opinion, doesn't make our real world experiences wrong.

He's been quoted speaking against the use of Linear Power Supplies, yet a cottage industry thrives in spite of his advocating for the use of his superior SMPS. I've A/Bd the stock SMPS power supply against a LPSU… I chose the latter. He might think it sounds good, but I'd wager most of us prefer the latter.

 

[jlbrach]

Yes, Chord DACs are jitter resistant, but everything before it isn't necessarily…

So reclocking upstream does help the Chord DAC downstream.

when I tried the phoenix I was very surprised how much improvement I heard, I dont think it is confirmation bias...

 

[Ciggavelli]

I also heard vary noticeable improvements with adding in the Innuous Phoenix USB

 

[pkny]

Because Rob Watts has a strong opinion regarding his design and you agree with that opinion, doesn't make our real world experiences wrong.

He's been quoted speaking against the use of Linear Power Supplies, yet a cottage industry thrives in spite of his advocating for the use of his superior SMPS. I've A/Bd the stock SMPS power supply against a LPSU… I chose the latter. He might think it sounds good, but I'd wager most of us prefer the latter.

I have no experience with re-clocker. I just post what Rob said. But, based on my experience/listening tests with power supplies, I fully believe him.

I used to be a LPS guy, but after I did the test
(you can search my previous posts), I found the stock PS sounds closer than a unregulated battery than a LPS does. The LPS adds too much low frequency harmonic, and make the sound too thick and too warm, but harsher treble.

I always believe the signal path should be as simple as possible. Adding any active stage in the signal path increase the chances of getting more noise, which affects the SQ.

If I was going to add a USB re-clocker to my system, I would ask myself two questions:

1. Does cleaning the source jitter before Mscaler help, especially Mscaler generates jitter (measured by ASR, and confirmed by Rob)? I don't think so. If it does help, would it be more helpful to put re-clocker at the DBNC side of the Mscaler (if there is a such product).

2. Will adding a USB re-clocker increase noise or reduced noise when Mscaler's USB decoder and galvanic isolation are powered from the source side of the USB? Don't know the answer. Depends on the re-clocker.

At the end, I would just use toslink as a reference to compare USB. If they sounds identical, I am done. If they sounds different, I will then start worry about it. In my current system, they actually sounds identical, so I am done.

 

[piguetpolo]

@pkny What you just described simply advocates for running the Chord stuff mostly stock. I've heard stock and it's really good, but with DDC and reclockers, another gear is gained.

It's as much as I can speak to, as our philosophies around signal path and purity differ.