[The Jester]

Luckily around here we share freely with friends,

 

[stemiki]

In the first few days of using the Scaler in my setup, I used optical connection from both the Lumin streamer to the Scaler and from the Scaler to the DAVE.
This was to hear how the EMI RFI sound presented itself without problems. Of course I didn't have sampling rates up to 705/768 kHz. Then when I connected the two stock BNC cables I was amazed by the quality and didn't feel any additional brightness.
I don't know if this is due to the fact that I have all electronics with switching power supplies, which produce very low amounts of EMI RFI. And I don't even use shielded power cables, but very good interconnect cables in Silver for their very natural tone.

In this article, engineer John Siau explains why switching power supplies are superior to linear ones: https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/ap...audio-myth-switching-power-supplies-are-noisy Then, however, everyone has their own beliefs and does as he believes.

 

[Progisus]

The truth is out there.

 

[The Jester]

I can relate to your findings, in my case the two stock PSU’s are plugged into seperate active noise filtering power boards physically over two metres apart, the stock BNC cables were replaced with good quality ones with more secure connection and careful routing of the PSU cables well away from other cables, listening to that setup compared to battery powering the M Scaler proved to sound no different to me with my system ..
To the point now that it’s “mission accomplished “ and start enjoying better more engaging sound, everyone is different though some it’s a means to an end, a more emotional connection with musicians, others it’s obtaining the most dynamic and transparent sound as possible, and finally those with the means and passion to strive for their Holy Grail … and all as equally important ….

 

[Gadget67]

The truth is out there.

 

[The Jester]

Lol
That’s why forums like these are important, advertising and reviews can influence so far, but having rational discussions on what does and doesn’t sound good to individuals in their own systems is worth ten glowing reviews …

 

[Rob Watts]

How about actually fixing the problem, whatever it is. Having to spend nearly half the price of the MScaler to correct its design fault is not really acceptable to many people. Chord make both the M Scaler and the DAVE and TT2. They should be able to supply the absolutely optimal interface. Why were these issues with RF not discovered during listening tests?

The problem is that you are not appreciating the scale of the problem. So a little while ago, I was listening to the sample rate conversion for the ADC project. This used my 67 bit Lagrange interpolator running at 104 MHz, and I initially started simply with first order, and pS interpolation (this time interval is the resolution on the 104MHz time domain against the incoming 98MHz word clock). Ran simulations, and then listened, and I kept listening until I could hear no degradation. Eventually I ended up at 8th order Lagrange; but the really interesting thing was the time resolution. This had the effect of creating noise floor modulation that was dependent on the rate of change of input signal as well as amplitude; so a DC signal creates zero noise floor modulation, and as you double the frequency you double the noise floor modulation - so it's noise floor modulation that is dependent upon frequency and amplitude. The crazy thing was going to femto second resolution gave a 60dB improvement on simulation - and a big improvement on sound quality. I then went to atto second resolution; and here it was difficult to measure (from simulation) the noise floor modulation, so I started using 0dB 88kHz test signals (something you would never see in real life). Then I could see it at -300dB. Femto to atto second change was easily audible though. Then I went to zepto seconds, and now the noise floor modulation was not visible, even with 88kHz - so it would have been at -360dB levels. This is ridiculously small - but going from atto to zepto seconds resolution on the interpolator was still audible - and it sounded exactly like noise floor modulation, that is smoother and warmer.

What I concluded about this is that the target for noise floor modulation needs to be around -400dB. That is absolutely impossible to measure, and frankly it's an impossible engineering standard, which is why you can still hear subtle changes in cabling with the M scaler.

On the development of the M scaler, the ferrites were put into the OP drivers. And this indeed solved the problem - adding clip on 2GHz ferrites actually made the SQ worse (brighter indicative of more noise floor modulation) so I decided my treatments worked, so I submitted the design to Chord for production. Nick from Wave cables got a production M scaler, and sent me some prototypes of his cables - and indeed these sounded better, due to the solid ferrites he used.

So this situation is not a design fault, but merely illustrates how incredibly sensitive the human hearing system is. And in absolute terms we are hearing very,very,very tiny changes; the problem with listening tests is that something very tiny can become quite significant on an AB listening test. Remember too that this is the very top micrometer layer of icing on the cake! Moreover, if you want to perfectly isolate the RF noise, simply feed M scaler with an inexpensive battery lap-top power pack, and use optical inputs (although USB most of the time is fine).

 

[Gadget67]

Lol
That’s why forums like these are important, advertising and reviews can influence so far, but having rational discussions on what does and doesn’t sound good to individuals in their own systems is worth ten glowing reviews …

…and I rely much more on real user comments and reviews than “for profit” entities. The only thing I’m peddling is my unvarnished (but tasteful) opinion.

 

[Ragnar-BY]

How about actually fixing the problem, whatever it is. Having to spend nearly half the price of the MScaler to correct its design fault is not really acceptable to many people.

It's not a "problem". Chord sells M Scaler which is supposed to make sound better. And it makes. This thing works and it do pretty impressive job even with stock cables. Nick found a way to improve it. What's wrong with that? Nothing, in my opinion.

 

[Gadget67]

if you want to perfectly isolate the RF noise, simply feed M scaler with an inexpensive battery lap-top power pack, and use optical inputs (although USB most of the time is fine).

Exactly!!! Note the two twelve volt batteries that I alternate when one needs charging and the optical cable out of my MacBook running Audirvana.

 

[Gadget67]

It's not a "problem". Chord sells M Scaler which is supposed to make sound better. And it makes. This thing works and it do pretty impressive job even with stock cables. Nick found a way to improve it. What's wrong with that? Nothing, in my opinion.

So, if I use a battery and optical AND add Nick’s WAVE cables, can I attain negative RFI

 

[The Jester]

An RFI “black hole” Lol
Can see the advertising blurb now … “Makes you’re whole system better, including tv picture quality by absorbing spurious RFI emissions “

 

[stuartrosen]

Exactly!!! Note the two twelve volt batteries that I alternate when one needs charging and the optical cable out of my MacBook running Audirvana.

What cables are you using to connect TT2 to MS?

 

[Gadget67]

What cables are you using to connect TT2 to MS?

I’m using Moon Audio Silver Dragon BNC cables purchased when I received the M-Scaler. They are “reasonably” priced ($200 per cable for 1.5 feet) so $400 for two. Honestly, any reasonably made BNC cable would be just fine because RFI is no longer a concern for me now that I’m using a battery to power the M-Scaler. The stock cables are inexpensive and some users have voiced concern about loose connections. I’d try Blue Jeans cables if you are looking for a decent budget alternative. Of course you could buy the WAVE cables if you dont want to go the battery route but they are pricy, IMHO.

 

[Ragnar-BY]

any reasonably made BNC cable would be just fine because RFI is no longer a concern for me now that I’m using a battery to power the M-Scaler.

Have you tried ferrited cables, or just decided basing on theory?