Hugo M Scaler by Chord Electronics - The Official Thread
May 28, 2021 at 1:42 AM Post #13,726 of 18,535
even if there was, it wouldn’t be an ideal solution as the MScaler can’t upscale to its maximum rate unless using either USB or Dual BNC inputs
Wrong. M scaler can upscale to maximum rate any incoming signal/sample rate. Input type doesn't matter. (Output does)
Toslink to the m scaler only defines what kind of maximum sample rate you can put into the m scaler, not how much upsampling/out put rate you can get out of m scaler.
 
May 28, 2021 at 2:03 AM Post #13,727 of 18,535
It does sound great, though I’m surprised so few people seem to have experienced this issue given the fact that Chord says this is the expected behavior, which makes me wonder what software or hardware other folks are using, or if they either don’t notice or don’t care, both of which seem unlikely given how most of us in this hobby have a low tolerance for such annoyances.
I figure many use Roon and set the delay to 1000ms and resolve the issue that way. At least that is what I have done. Otherwise, in Roon, it only clips the first second of the first track in the queue and after format changes which isn’t that often for my use case.
 
May 28, 2021 at 2:45 AM Post #13,728 of 18,535
Yes, I had the same issue with the Mojo and had fixed it the same way you suggested. Chord has let me know that this is the expected behavior due to the very long filter of the MScaler and that I need to find software that works with it. Jriver has the “Play Silence At Startup For Hardware Sync” option which works, and Foorbar2000 with the Pregap plugin with the “replace silence with noise“ option selected works as well.

Unfortunately, though, the Aurender doesn’t have that option, though those guys are always great and their software team have been remotely patching my unit in an attempt to find a fix. Also, while there is no optical out on the Aurender, even if there was, it wouldn’t be an ideal solution as the MScaler can’t upscale to its maximum rate unless using either USB or Dual BNC inputs.

Again though, thanks for the advice. I think this is going to come down to either Aurender is able to fix it, or I switch to something like a Mac Mini running JRiver and using their remote app as this is neither a headphone nor a desktop setup, which would require the purchase of a Mac Mini or a nuc and unfortunately would limit me to local files only as JRiver doesn’t have streaming support for Qobuz. I could use something like Audirvana for that, but they don’t have a silence option (at least not in the new Audirvana Studio, and I’m unfamiliar with the older versions), so the skipping would remain. Or I could just returning everything and take a hit on a huge restocking fee which is not my desired outcome.

It does sound great, though I’m surprised so few people seem to have experienced this issue given the fact that Chord says this is the expected behavior, which makes me wonder what software or hardware other folks are using, or if they either don’t notice or don’t care, both of which seem unlikely given how most of us in this hobby have a low tolerance for such annoyances.
I’m getting the issue on audirvana, it’s quite annoying (little screech noise after track finishes)
 
May 28, 2021 at 9:34 AM Post #13,729 of 18,535
Wrong. M scaler can upscale to maximum rate any incoming signal/sample rate. Input type doesn't matter. (Output does)
Toslink to the m scaler only defines what kind of maximum sample rate you can put into the m scaler, not how much upsampling/out put rate you can get out of m scaler.
Whoops, I totally misread the chart in the manual, I just gave it a quick glance initially as I knew I would be using USB, but clearly my reading comprehension has failed me. Definitely feeling a bit stupid now. Still doesn’t help my situation, but thanks for bringing it to my attention.
 
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May 28, 2021 at 9:53 AM Post #13,730 of 18,535
I figure many use Roon and set the delay to 1000ms and resolve the issue that way. At least that is what I have done. Otherwise, in Roon, it only clips the first second of the first track in the queue and after format changes which isn’t that often for my use case.
Yes, thanks, that’s the result I got with Roon and Audirvana, only the first song in the queue is cut off, or any song manually started after pausing or stopping play for more than a moment. Once the MScaler is getting a signal all is fine, but any pause or stoppage and the beginning is cut off.

So if you’re only listening to playlists or albums, only the first song is affected, but if you are someone who is just adding songs as you go, then every track is affected, unless of course the newly started track is of a different sample rate than the last one, in which case the delay settings work as intended and nothing is skipped. The trick is getting that same result when not changing sample rates, which so far I've only been able to achieve with the options in JRiver and Foobar2000.

Aurender has now patched my unit so it behaves that way too, which is much better than it was before and they are trying to get it to eliminate the skipping all together.
 
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May 28, 2021 at 1:28 PM Post #13,731 of 18,535
Lol i knew it would come to this. That software solutions like PGGB start challenge the Mscaler.

I had the same when i was having my finger on the trigger for a Smyth Realizer 16ch virtual headphone surround processor.. knowing its all bout programming i thought i'll wait for a software kit and using my DAC of choice. That was just before i dived into the HMS realm.

And yes also here i thought why go for expensive gear if a software solution will eventually come.. but i realized i have to do lots of time consuming work configuring my PC and converting each file which get huge.

And for 'realtime' converting needing a muscular PC which adds big on the costs and still wont let me use its scaling watching a movie on e.g. Netflix caused by a huge delay.

Nah i did't have to think long to go for HMS
Also cause i'm very fund of Rob's approach of creating/finetuning the WTA. And ofc me already owning a Chord DAC.
 
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May 28, 2021 at 3:07 PM Post #13,732 of 18,535
Lol i knew it would come to this. That software solutions like PGGB start challenge the Mscaler.

I had the same when i was having my finger on the trigger for a Smyth Realizer 16ch virtual headphone surround processor.. knowing its all bout programming i thought i'll wait for a software kit and using my DAC of choice. That was just before i dived into the HMS realm.

And yes also here i thought why go for expensive gear if a software solution will eventually come.. but i realized i have to do lots of time consuming work configuring my PC and converting each file which get huge.

And for 'realtime' converting needing a muscular PC which adds big on the costs and still wont let me use its scaling watching a movie on e.g. Netflix caused by a huge delay.

Nah i did't have to think long to go for HMS
Also cause i'm very fund of Rob's approach of creating/finetuning the WTA. And ofc me already owning a Chord DAC.
All true but for your treasured downloaded albums PGGB will lift another couple veils especially with Chord dacs. It is the way.
 
May 28, 2021 at 3:52 PM Post #13,733 of 18,535
I see u have a Mojo, HMS can't do its max upscaling with it since it has'nt dual coaxial input.. but PGGB can on its USB. That changes the balance. Same counts for non chord DAC's
 
May 28, 2021 at 8:27 PM Post #13,734 of 18,535
Whoops, I totally misread the chart in the manual, I just gave it a quick glance initially as I knew I would be using USB, but clearly my reading comprehension has failed me. Definitely feeling a bit stupid now. Still doesn’t help my situation, but thanks for bringing it to my attention.
I did exactly the same thing when reading the manual lol
 
May 31, 2021 at 10:08 AM Post #13,735 of 18,535
but I still favour a well executed usb over optical

That's my experience too. However, I think this also strongly depends on the streamer you use and USB cable.

In my case, I'm using an Auralic Aries G2.1 as a streamer. It has a galvanically isolated USB output with a dedicated femto clock. I connected this to the M Scaler with a Curious Evolved USB cable. In addition to a large number of other positive qualities, this cable is known for its good shielding.

So in my setup I go from one galvanically isolated connection to the other and the timing is also well controlled on both sides.

After I had thoroughly researched this tread and after I had read in it that Rob Watts has a slight preference for the use of optical, I tested with a number of good optical cables. For example Audioquest Vodka, Wireworld Supernova, Van den Hul The Optocoupler Mk. II. To me and in my system, these all sounded worse than the USB connection.

That's why I think USB will indeed sound better in the end, but you have to put some time, money and effort into it.
 
May 31, 2021 at 10:43 AM Post #13,736 of 18,535
"Enjoy what you have now. This is stuff that would have been unimaginable only a few years ago and a type of sound quality that 99.9%+ of the people in this world will never get to hear or appreciate." Ultimately, it should be about enjoying the music, not the gear. Anyway, that's how I console myself. Haha. :wink:
:L3000:

I may even buy a cheap but capable PC just to do PGGB processing as an option to buying yet another also very expensive MBP.
I hate the fact that one always has to pay much more to get the same performance as with pc´s just because someone has taken "a bite at the apple"?
Since the introduction of the M1 chip Apple seems to have a pretty good price-to-value ratio, and they may unveil an even more powerful chip next week.

After I had thoroughly researched this tread and after I had read in it that Rob Watts has a slight preference for the use of optical, I tested with a number of good optical cables. For example Audioquest Vodka, Wireworld Supernova, Van den Hul The Optocoupler Mk. II. To me and in my system, these all sounded worse than the USB connection.
What do you mean by "worse"? What were the differences?
 
May 31, 2021 at 11:19 AM Post #13,738 of 18,535
Optical is a good option to ensure isolation and as a reference point, I use CD transport via optical to the MScaler to optimise the USB from PC to MScaler, before the latest mods I had a slight preference in favour of USB vs CD transport, PC runs good quality components including SSD system and storage drives,
Latest additions were a PCIe USB card and an nvme SSD storage drive on a PCIe card and noted a little extra clarity in the treble along with a quieter background, dont know why for sure but guessing the USB and SSD now on PCIe slots they’re in direct communication with the Northbridge chip rather than the onboard USB and SATA going via Southbridge to Northbridge link …
 
May 31, 2021 at 11:42 AM Post #13,739 of 18,535
Especially the sound image was "narrower". I also thought it sounded compressed. As if the sound was being squeezed. That, along with the chunky bass, were the most notable differences.
Something is telling me that indeed optical was actually better. If you look for Rob posts - that's exactly what is happening when RFI gets into dac. Soundstage is wider, sound pops out more is more dynamic. But that's artificial.
As I said mamy times I won't tell you what you should like more. Just my 2 cents to this topic - a different view.

I have similar experience with optical vs usb. Optical sounded a bit like dynamics were a bit squashed and soundstage was narrower but after careful listening and keeping in mind Robs knowledge I've chosen optical as it was much less fatiguing.
 
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May 31, 2021 at 1:50 PM Post #13,740 of 18,535
:L3000:


Since the introduction of the M1 chip Apple seems to have a pretty good price-to-value ratio, and they may unveil an even more powerful chip next week.
Thanks for the updating me on the next generation macs.
My old 2011 17"mbp is actuallly capable of playing PGGB upsampled files so I am keeping my fingers crossed that Apple won´t under-deliver and over-price once again.
Ironically even an old Mac Pro from say 2012-2013 is much more capable than even the very latest,very expensive mbps.
Even the latest mbps from last year are limited to only 32gb ram. But they cost almost five times as much as an old but better Mac Pro.
I will need at least 64gb ram.
As far as optical and Mscaler are concerned, optical out from my cd players sounds great and almost as noise free as PGGB, but not quite.
Noise is no issue via my speakers, but audible via headphones sometimes.
Cheers CC
 

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