Hugo M Scaler by Chord Electronics - The Official Thread

[quinndo]

Thanks for the replies and links!
Agree on the sound quality debate. I'm not interested in how they "add veils" or whatever, just that they work. Though I do respect others' decisions to spend on pricey cables, just not into it myself (I collect whisky, so that is where I choose to "waste" my money). Same argument goes there...

Was looking for a BNC version of this (minus the silver dragon prices), ready made for purchase as I don't have time to pick up the hobby of DIY cable-making:
But those share should suffice!

 

[varadero xl1000v]

I just received 2 really nice Christmas gifts.. probably the best in my life:

 

[griff500]

Thanks for the replies and links!
Agree on the sound quality debate. I'm not interested in how they "add veils" or whatever, just that they work. Though I do respect others' decisions to spend on pricey cables, just not into it myself (I collect whisky, so that is where I choose to "waste" my money). Same argument goes there...

It's not the same argument at all - the right whiskey has the potential to go up in value, which cannot be said for even the 'best' of cables...

 

[Redwingnine]

Just received my M-Scaler to pair with the Hugo-2. The M-Scaler makes the Hugo-2 sound like a completely different DAC altogether. I can't think of any other audio product that can make such a significant improvement to the playback chain than the M-Scaler.

I also use the M-Scaler with a Devialet Expert system at 192Khz, and as good as the Devialet is, the M-Scaler improves the sound from the Devialet.

Audio components may come and go as one upgrades, but the M-Scaler will stay with my system long term. It's that good.

 

[ryder78]

Sell qbd76 then buy an mscaler to use with hugo2 giving stellar results. Then you can work your way up the chord dac chain as and when your needs / funds allow. That's what i've done and recently exchanged hugo 2 for a tt2 to use with my mcaler. For me the mscaler is essential. That's my best advice. Maybe you should also audition hugo2/mscaler vs solo dave as it can be a personal preference "thing".

Hi. May I ask if you have experience with the QBD76. I have this DAC in the main system and it sounds splendid. I cannot consider the Hugo2 as it doesn't have USB-B connection and can't take a full-sized power cord and balanced interconnects.

Is the Hugo2/MScaler a noticeable improvement over QBD76? One thing I can assure you is the QBD76 is very very good when it's optimised. I currently have a power cord which costs more than the DAC.

Can the MScaler be used with the QBD76?

The Qutest/MScaler is said to be the best value in comparison to the rest of DACs. Is this combination recommended and will it sound better than QBD76?

 

[Glossator]

Hi. May I ask if you have experience with the QBD76. I have this DAC in the main system and it sounds splendid. I cannot consider the Hugo2 as it doesn't have USB-B connection and can't take a full-sized power cord and balanced interconnects.

Is the Hugo2/MScaler a noticeable improvement over QBD76? One thing I can assure you is the QBD76 is very very good when it's optimised. I currently have a power cord which costs more than the DAC.

Can the MScaler be used with the QBD76?

The Qutest/MScaler is said to be the best value in comparison to the rest of DACs. Is this combination recommended and will it sound better than QBD76?

Qutest is a clear step up on the DAC 64 (which I think was one generation behind QBD 76) so I would expect Qutest and Mscaler to be a large step up ....

 

[miketlse]

Hi. May I ask if you have experience with the QBD76. I have this DAC in the main system and it sounds splendid. I cannot consider the Hugo2 as it doesn't have USB-B connection and can't take a full-sized power cord and balanced interconnects.

Is the Hugo2/MScaler a noticeable improvement over QBD76? One thing I can assure you is the QBD76 is very very good when it's optimised. I currently have a power cord which costs more than the DAC.

Can the MScaler be used with the QBD76?

The Qutest/MScaler is said to be the best value in comparison to the rest of DACs. Is this combination recommended and will it sound better than QBD76?

@Rob Watts can best answer if the MScaler be used with the QBD76?

Rob describes two key elements of his dac designs, as the number of taps, and the number of pulse array stages.

Your QBD76 has 18k taps, plus a 16 element pulse array
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-hugo.702787/post-10462302

Hugo : 26k taps, plus a 4 element pulse array
Mojo : 26k taps, plus a 4 element pulse array
2Qute : 26k taps, plus a 4 element pulse array
HugoTT : 26k taps, plus a 4 element pulse array

Hugo2 : 49k taps, plus a 10 element pulse array
TT2 : 98k taps, plus a 10 element pulse array
Qutest : 49k taps, plus a 10 element pulse array

Dave : 164k taps, plus a 20 element pulse array

Every chord dac released since 2014, beats the QBD76 in terms of taps.
Only the Dave beats the QBD76 in terms of pulse array elements

Of course adding the MScaler to any of the current chord dacs, will demolish the QBD76 in terms of taps.

Bear in mind that the QBD76 is now a 13 year old design, so the only things it has going for it now, are that you already own it (so no additional cost), and its 16 element pulse array.
Only your ears can decide if one of the 10 element pulse array dacs, would prove acceptable to you

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

Hi. May I ask if you have experience with the QBD76. I have this DAC in the main system and it sounds splendid. I cannot consider the Hugo2 as it doesn't have USB-B connection and can't take a full-sized power cord and balanced interconnects.

Is the Hugo2/MScaler a noticeable improvement over QBD76? One thing I can assure you is the QBD76 is very very good when it's optimised. I currently have a power cord which costs more than the DAC.

Can the MScaler be used with the QBD76?

The Qutest/MScaler is said to be the best value in comparison to the rest of DACs. Is this combination recommended and will it sound better than QBD76?

Hi ryder78,
I have the Chord QBD76, Hugo2, M Scaler and DAVE connected to my full Chord Choral Speaker Systems with Clearer Audio Silverline Optimum Reference balanced XLR connections from the QBD76 and DAVE and Clearer Audio Silverline Optimum Reference from Hugo 2 to my Chord Prima Pre-Amp. M Scaler connected to my Blu MK1 CD Transporter via a single Wave Storm BNC Cable. M Scaler connected to DAVE also using Wave Storm BNC cables.

I have sound tested over the last month to 6 weeks the above Chord equipment and to my ears using a variety of music genres from classical to jazz to RMB to Pop to Rock playing CD's from my Blu MK1 (QBD76 providing a 176kHz sample rate, M Scaler providing full 706kHz sample rate to DAVE and 192kHz to QBD76) with my findings as follows;

- QBD76 on it's own - Great sound. Great treble (no sibilance) and mid range detail. Nice bass. Better than Hugo 2. If I hadn't heard the DAVE alongside it I would be very happy with it. Have had two QBD76's (in two separate Speaker systems) for over 8 years. I find it so good contempalting not selling them even though I have the DAVE as a back up if DAVE goes down (for whatever reason).

- QBD76 with M Scaler - Not very good. QBD76 can only receive max 192kHz. Struggles to lock the signal from the M Scaler. QBD76 much better on t's own.

- Hugo 2 on its own - Good sound with great clarity although a bit thin sounding. Prefer the QBD76 on it's own in the Speaker system. Great portable DAC & headphone amp unit.

- Hugo 2 with M Scaler - Good sound quality. Not so thin sounding as on it's own. Not a huge step up. Still prefer QBD76 in Speaker system.

- DAVE on it's own - Great DAC & Headphone Amp (especially for low impedence (15 Ohms up to 100 Ohms) headphones. Better clarity in treble, mid range and bass and more separation for the intstruments altough the QBD76 sound warmer and more analogue but a bit more congested with instruments etc.

- DAVE with M Scaler - Awesome. Transforms the DAVE into a digital analogue sounding beast with a lot of meat on the bone regarding a fuller sound whilst keeping the DAVE's great transparency and separation characteristics. No listening fatigue no matter what genres you throw at it.

If I had around £1,200 to £1,500 to spend on a balanced output DAC I would definitely hunt down a used QBD76 DAC. Paired with a second hand Blu MK1 to give dual BNC 176kHz sampling rate it's a great sounding source for the money. Note:- that running the QBD76 with RCA outputs is nowhere near as good as XLR Balanced out.

I haven't heard a Qutest, but assume it's similar to the Hugo 2 as they use similar DAC architecture although from reviews it is a bit better than the Hugo2. If this is the case then I would say the QBD76 runnig XLR balanced outputs is better than the Qutest.

Note that I do have two full Chord Choral speaker systems both mounted in Chord Aspire Racks (see attached photos - system with red LED QBD76, DAVE & M Scaler in UK, system with blue LED QBD76 in Spain), therefore giving me perfect synergy and matching of of the components.

Hope the above helps make your decision.

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

Qutest is a clear step up on the DAC 64 (which I think was one generation behind QBD 76) so I would expect Qutest and Mscaler to be a large step up ....

DAC 64 MKII is a good DAC especially for the second hand value (around £500 to £800) although not as good as the QBD76 !

 

[Bonesy Jonesy]

@Rob Watts can best answer if the MScaler be used with the QBD76?

Rob describes two key elements of his dac designs, as the number of taps, and the number of pulse array stages.

Your QBD76 has 18k taps, plus a 16 element pulse array
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-hugo.702787/post-10462302

Hugo : 26k taps, plus a 4 element pulse array
Mojo : 26k taps, plus a 4 element pulse array
2Qute : 26k taps, plus a 4 element pulse array
HugoTT : 26k taps, plus a 4 element pulse array

Hugo2 : 49k taps, plus a 10 element pulse array
TT2 : 98k taps, plus a 10 element pulse array
Qutest : 49k taps, plus a 10 element pulse array

Dave : 164k taps, plus a 20 element pulse array

Every chord dac released since 2014, beats the QBD76 in terms of taps.
Only the Dave beats the QBD76 in terms of pulse array elements

Of course adding the MScaler to any of the current chord dacs, will demolish the QBD76 in terms of taps.

Bear in mind that the QBD76 is now a 13 year old design, so the only things it has going for it now, are that you already own it (so no additional cost), and its 16 element pulse array.
Only your ears can decide if one of the 10 element pulse array dacs, would prove acceptable to you

See my findings posted a few minutes ago on the QBD76 comparison with the Hugo 2 and DAVE. The QBD76 is a great DAC and on the second hand market, bang for buck is still one of the best DAC's around within it's price category.

 

[ecwl]

Hi. May I ask if you have experience with the QBD76. I have this DAC in the main system and it sounds splendid. I cannot consider the Hugo2 as it doesn't have USB-B connection and can't take a full-sized power cord and balanced interconnects.

Is the Hugo2/MScaler a noticeable improvement over QBD76? One thing I can assure you is the QBD76 is very very good when it's optimised. I currently have a power cord which costs more than the DAC.

Can the MScaler be used with the QBD76?

The Qutest/MScaler is said to be the best value in comparison to the rest of DACs. Is this combination recommended and will it sound better than QBD76?

I have owned all the products you mentioned except for Qutest which a good friend of mine has and I have listened to many times. That said, unlike @Bonesy Jonesy I haven’t listened to my old QBD76HDSD against the newer Chord DACs directly since I replaced it with the DAVE first before getting the rest of the Chord line. But another friend had the QBD for a while so I get to re-listen when I visit.

@miketlse analysis is kind of what you’d expect to hear between QBD76 vs Hugo/Qutest.
To me, the longer the tap length for Chord DACs, the more PRaT they have as there is better transient accuracy. But the more elements they have and the better the power supply design, the lower the noise floor and the better the soundstage depth. So QBD76 to me is going to beat the Hugo 2/Qutest in the transparency/soundstage depth and maybe marginally in the micro details because it’s 16 elements vs 10 elements in the pulse array DAC. But for me, because the transient accuracy and timing is what gives the system musicality, I personally find that even Mojo is more musical than the QBD76. So it may sound heretical here but I personally would prefer Mojo to QBD76 even though I can easily see how many people would prefer QBD76 to Mojo. But I would definitely recommend people to buy Qutest over a used QBD76. In fact my friend who bought the Qutest offered to buy my QBD76 and I recommended him not to and at least in my mind I’m right and he’s ecstatic with Qutest sound.

Part of the challenge in hi-fi is that we are used to listening to and listening for the audiophile qualities we are used to. So if you’re used to the higher element count, the lower element count of the pulse array of the Qutest might strike you as an obvious worsening (even if it’s marginal) while the improvement in musicality and transient accuracy might be missed (because it’s not something you’re used to hearing).

Moreover, we tend to build our system around the components that we own. Like you said, you bought an expensive power cord (so did I) for the QBD76 to optimize it. So your system might be built to mask issues of the QBD76 so throwing in the Qutest initially might cause synergy issues. The other thing is that QBD76 is definitely a bit more sensitive to RF noise or ground loop leakage current noise causing noise floor modulation compared to the current set of Chord products. So in theory, if you get Qutest, and presumably if your system is optimized for the QBD76, you should get sonic improvement for the Qutest. Hugo 2 has no galvanic isolation on USB and just uses a lot of filtering which is very effective on my systems. I believe QBD76 has no galvanic isolation but QBD76HD/HDSD does on USB but I’m not sure.

If you look at this thread, you’ll find that people debate whether DAVE is better or m-Scaler+TT2 is better. I think it’s what you’re listening for. Yes, there are people who think their system is better without m-Scaler. There are even people who insist say TT2 is better than DAVE but I consider that a minority opinion. Ideally you want to be able to have a long audition to decide for yourself what you like. But if you want a generic opinion, my gut feeling is that the majority of people would prefer Hugo2/Qutest over QBD76. And an overwhelming majority of people (>90%) would prefer M-Scaler + Hugo2/Qutest.

As for M-Scaler + QBD76, as mentioned, I don’t think the S/PDIF input at 176/192kHz of the QBD76 is very stable so you’ll essentially only get 125,000 taps out of the M-Scaler if you feed M-Scaler to QBD76 as the reliable sample rate is 88/96kHz. It should still sound better (I have done this at my dealer‘s shop to many non-Chord DAC systems) but I don’t know if it’s $5000 better.

 

[miketlse]

See my findings posted a few minutes ago on the QBD76 comparison with the Hugo 2 and DAVE. The QBD76 is a great DAC and on the second hand market, bang for buck is still one of the best DAC's around within it's price category.

Yes, there are quite a few second hand QBD76, going for sub-Hugo2 money.
That does not alter the fact that the QBD76 has less taps than a Mojo, but countered by a better pulse array.

Realistically 'bang per buck' comes down to the trade-off of taps v pulse array elements, between the Hugo2 and the QBD76.
Yes could be tempting to use a QBD76 for a speaker system, assuming one already had an amplifier.

 

[varadero xl1000v]

Guys yesterday I received the following pair Chord. I have not connected MScaler at the moment, I want to "learn" the sound of tt2 first ..

 

[ecwl]

Realistically 'bang per buck' comes down to the trade-off of taps v pulse array elements, between the Hugo2 and the QBD76.
Yes could be tempting to use a QBD76 for a speaker system, assuming one already had an amplifier.

If you don’t already own a QBD76 and are looking to get one for a speaker system, you should probably make sure the QBD76 is not going to clip your stereo. I’ve noticed on at least two of my friends‘ system that their stereo clips the 3V QBD76 output (same for the 2Qute) so the DAC was performing nowhere close to optimum. With Hugo 2 or Qutest, you can lower the output voltage to 2V or 1V to prevent clipping

 

[ryder78]

Hi Bonesy Jonesy,
Thank you for the comprehensive post which is certainly useful to me. It's rare to have someone own so many top-notch Chord gear in the system and to be able to compare and assess the performance of each and every component. I appreciate the experience.

The QBD76 is indeed a gem. It was recommended by a gentleman on another forum several years ago and it's surely a game changer in my system. The owner used to own top of the range Naim 500 series amplification and compared the Hugo to the QBD76 and there's no comparison. The QBD76 trounced the Hugo but this was without the MScaler.

For the past 2 years, my system has gone through many changes and the QBD76 has remained. The most recent upgrade in my system which consists of Furutech NCF wall receptacles and Acrolink Mexcel power cords really lifted the performance of the system. The power cord which is connected to the QBD76 is now more expensive than the DAC itself.

I recently read about the transformative experience of several owners who tried the MScaler on the latest Chord DACs which include Hugo2, Qutest and HugoTT. Mostly all who tried the MScaler found it to be an improvement. That was the reason I am looking at the MScaler, and I now realise the MScaler can be used with the QBD76. Nevertheless, it is interesting the MScaler degrades the sound quality of the QBD76 instead of improving it.

Your post has further reinforced my impressions of the QBD76. Even used on its own it sounds very good. I agree with your thoughts on the smooth, grainless and fatigue free presentation of the QBD76. It's the least digital sounding DAC I've ever come across. It sounds more like analogue than digital though I have to say the partnering ancillaries and cables all play a part as well.

Lastly, I just noticed that all Chord DACs with the exception of DAVE do not fit my criteria. After spending a fortune on cabling recently I do not have anymore budget for hifi upgrades hence I'll stick with the QBD76 for a while.

The diagram below shows the connections of the QBD76 which are important to me.