Hugo M Scaler by Chord Electronics - The Official Thread

[Malcyg]

Thanks Andrew,
The comments re graininess etc. are in comparison with other very good dacs & streamers tried in the same system. Each time the network upstream of DAVE is improved, the effect is diminished a little further, which is why I am happy to keep the Chord combo and extract the best from them.

Best regards, FT

It was some time ago now, but I found exactly this. To me, the Dave plus, in my case Blu II, open such a wide window onto your music that it exposes stuff that you didn’t know was there in your delivery set up. That does involve some work to resolve but it is very well worthwhile once you do. As well as points already mentioned, I found my network to be a big culprit in this area as it seems are you.

 

[foot tapper]

A helpful summary, Malcyg.
I'm going to play with posh BNC cables, an etherRegen to optically converse with the opticalRendu, and a light dusting of Paul Hynes or Sean Jacobs linear power supplies to hear what they do to the system. Hopefully, a lot.

The back wall of our living room is starting to look like a breeding farm for power supplies; it's becoming ridiculous.
At times it's tempting to sell the lot and buy a Vitus SIA30 with all the modules in it. That would leave us with a thoroughly decent turntable and one humungously large & heavy Danish box! Oh, and some lovely ART Alnico speakers

 

[GreenBow]

I don't see why Naim would be more susceptible to PSU noise than any other amplifier. Noise getting into analogue electronics is the issue.

I don't quite know how the reporting of it started or if it's true. However an example is someone reported the Hugo 2 PSU puts noise into the mains.

The advice to change amplifier rather than PSU, I don't understand. Unless it's the case that the switch-mode PSU in Chord Ttoby and Etude, are not susceptible to noise.

Naim isn't more prone to PSU noise than other amps that use linear power supplies and Indeed I don't hear any problems with Chord SMPS and Naims own

I may have found the answer to my own thought.

In the post above by AndrewOld, (Post #11,650 of 11,657) he links a page. This one Post #9,602 of 11,657

In it, Rob Watts explains why the Chord PSUs are superior for RFI reduction. It may be the same principle that applies to the Ttoby and Etude PSUs. … Don't take my preliminary red of it to be right though. If you really want to know, then read it yourself.

 

[GreenBow]

I don’t see why all amplifiers should be equally susceptible to PSU noise. Did the designers meet up and agree to deal with the issue equally? Some amps might have extensive filtering and shielding, others of a more hair-shirt ethos might eschew such complications. A lot of naim kit was designed in an era when there weren’t switching power supplies.

Delighted to help.

I did not say, mean, or imply, that amplifiers or amplifier PSUs are all the same. I meant that analogue electronics are susceptible to RFI.

 

[STR-1]

Accepting there are many variables to contend with, quite apart from personal preference, has anyone found a coupling vibration control product that works well with the M Scaler? My M Scaler sits on a 2” thick bamboo shelf in my Atacame rack, and I listen exclusively to headphones, so any structure-borne vibration is going to be negligible.

 

[iamoneagain]

I thought Rob said you’d only need vibration control when using speakers. With headphones, where would the vibration be coming from unless you live near a train, airport, or highway. Or have kids running around the house.

And the reason Rob doesn’t use battery solution at home is because he’s using Wave Steam cables. If money’s not a concern this would be the easiest solution. But as mentioned in previous post, using Poweradd will completely remove any RFI the power supply was causing and bnc cables won’t matter. So this is cheapest solution. I believe the optical converter is supposed to remove all RFI no matter where it’s coming from. But this setup also requires 2 Poweradd batteries to work best.

 

[GreenBow]

And the reason Rob doesn’t use battery solution at home is because he’s using Wave Steam cables. If money’s not a concern this would be the easiest solution. But as mentioned in previous post, using Poweradd will completely remove any RFI the power supply was causing and bnc cables won’t matter. So this is cheapest solution. I believe the optical converter is supposed to remove all RFI no matter where it’s coming from. But this setup also requires 2 Poweradd batteries to work best.

Was thinking about this. I am not sure if there is another solution but it would be good if there were. (To either batteries or expensive cables.)

However some folk have been experimenting with supercapacitor PSUs with the Qutest. Sound improvement aside, I am sure Rob Watts told us batteries and supercaps break the noise loop. Am sure he said that the supercaps in the TT2 along with the switch-mode PSU stop noise. (I may be wrong though, so don't quote me. I can't even be sure the PSU is switch-mode. Rob does say it's RFI screened protective though.)

Why not then experiment powering the M-Scaler with a supercap PSU?

 

[Glossator]

I thought Rob said you’d only need vibration control when using speakers. With headphones, where would the vibration be coming from unless you live near a train, airport, or highway. Or have kids running around the house.

And the reason Rob doesn’t use battery solution at home is because he’s using Wave Steam cables. If money’s not a concern this would be the easiest solution. But as mentioned in previous post, using Poweradd will completely remove any RFI the power supply was causing and bnc cables won’t matter. So this is cheapest solution. I believe the optical converter is supposed to remove all RFI no matter where it’s coming from. But this setup also requires 2 Poweradd batteries to work best.

For context: I can (sadly) only listen on headphones.

I do not pretend to understand what is going on, but because it was relatively inexpensive and was recommended, I recently popped DAVE on Ingress rollerblocks (three ball bearings each of which sits on a concave platter).

The difference it has made has been a real surprise - quite astonishing really. The sound is much more holographic - instruments seem not only to be more much accurately placed but also to have a more three-dimensional/tangible sense of presence across the whole frequency range - you become aware of how notes sit on an instrument in physical relationship to each other. And, of course what made this particularly surprising is that DAVE is no slouch sitting on its stock feet!

This may sound mad, but I know what my ears are telling me and the difference is not subtle at all.

I have noticed that you can feel vibrations in a headphone cable, but it would be surprising for this is to be sufficient to make a difference (i.e direct physical coupling between the headphone and the DAC). The other possible source, I suspect, is the piece of hifi equipment itself - I remember from O-Level physics that the generation of heat involves vibration at the atomic level and all equipment gets warm - maybe at lower frequency levels components generate vibrations that are sufficient to have an impact on other components of sufficient sensitivity. Very weird.

It would be wonderful to understand what is going on. RW has explained about the importance of the brain's sensitivity to tiny timing differences and whatever all the ins-and-outs it is quite remarkable. I seem to vaguely recall a RW post when he said that he was curious about isolation and was planning when he had time to investigate further; the Jon Snow quote he favours rather comes to mind.

Apologises, I know this probably belongs better in the DAVE thread - but I have a Daiza arriving all being well later today to experiment with and plan to see if the HMS responds well to the rollerblocks and/or the Daiza.

 

[STR-1]

I thought Rob said you’d only need vibration control when using speakers. With headphones, where would the vibration be coming from unless you live near a train, airport, or highway. Or have kids running around the house.

And the reason Rob doesn’t use battery solution at home is because he’s using Wave Steam cables. If money’s not a concern this would be the easiest solution. But as mentioned in previous post, using Poweradd will completely remove any RFI the power supply was causing and bnc cables won’t matter. So this is cheapest solution. I believe the optical converter is supposed to remove all RFI no matter where it’s coming from. But this setup also requires 2 Poweradd batteries to work best.

I do use Wave Stream cables, OPTO.DX and Poweradd packs (with M Scaler and both ends of OPTO).

I am looking at what might be done to reduce the impact of internally generated resonances in all the devices of my music system, including the M Scaler, hence the question.

It might be that there is little to be done with the M Scaler, and indeed early rather crude experiments with 1” cubes of various wood types and the weight of several books, as well as some Black Ravioli pads, have so far not brought about any meaningful changes, certainly not to the level they have with the DAVE. I will be getting some Stillpoint Ultra SS next week on a returnable basis, which I will be trying out on everything, so that will be a chance to see what high-tech can do.

 

[Triode User]

I do use Wave Stream cables, OPTO.DX and Poweradd packs (with M Scaler and both ends of OPTO).

I am looking at what might be done to reduce the impact of internally generated resonances in all the devices of my music system, including the M Scaler, hence the question.

It might be that there is little to be done with the M Scaler, and indeed early rather crude experiments with 1” cubes of various wood types and the weight of several books, as well as some Black Ravioli pads, have so far not brought about any meaningful changes, certainly not to the level they have with the DAVE. I will be getting some Stillpoint Ultra SS next week on a returnable basis, which I will be trying out on everything, so that will be a chance to see what high-tech can do.

Steve, I would be surprised if a purely digital device (ie digital in and digital out) such as the Mscaler showed any susceptibility to vibration. Microphonic components in a DAC could be a different matter however.

 

[CRITICALSHOT]

I have been talking to a reviewer who has been testing the Qutest and comparing to two AudioNote DACs. The review is due soon and you might find it interesting . . . . . .

Slow typing arsed reviewer.

 

[Bling23]

ROON/NAS > 2 x SoTM switch (internal clock upgrades), each with Farad3 power supply > JCAT signature ethernet > Bel Canto Stream > MScaler > DAVE

Have been through quite a few streamers over the past 12 months (UltraRendu, Auralic G1, Innuos Zennith MK3, dCS Network Bridge) before settling on the Bel Canto.

Would love to try Blu MKII, but am currently out of rack space :/

Hi there ,
How do you think the Zenith MK3 would stack up to the Auralic G2 or 2.1. I has the G1 and changed for the sotm 200 ultra which was a nice improvement but I want to take it up another notch, was also looking at Aurender. I was also looking at the Farad supply it looks nice.

Thanks Sean

 

[Ards]

Steve, I would be surprised if a purely digital device (ie digital in and digital out) such as the Mscaler showed any susceptibility to vibration. Microphonic components in a DAC could be a different matter however.

Is there a clock in the MScaler that might be agitated by vibration?

 

[Triode User]

Is there a clock in the MScaler that might be agitated by vibration?

@Rob Watts Hi, what is your take on this? Is there anything in the HMS that might be worried by vibration or is it a red herring?

 

[qboogie]

I currently use the snake river boomslang BNC cables for HMS/TT2 and was thinking about purchasing the WAVE stream cables. The stream cables get a lot of love here, but there is almost nothing about the boomslang. The boomslang cables are ribbon-like instead of tubular and are quite heavy, and I'm limited by how I can arrange the equipment relative to each other. I've got two questions:

1. Has anyone had the chance (besides Jay Luong) to compare these two cables?

2. Which did you prefer?