[thomaskong78]

I received new Sennheiser HD 800S headphone yesterday.

Without any break-in, it did not show any hard edge.

Some IEM like Hifiman need more than 100 hours of break in before harsh treble is gone.

But after playing it for few hours, it seems to show more details and bass resonance.

From the review, I had expected HD 800S to sound bright and be prepared to apply equalization using Lyngdorf 2170 presets.

But driven by Chord Dave and Mscaler, it sounds neutral without any equalization.

I had played Chesky Jazz Sampler and Test disc to test soundstage width and depth.

It shows very sharp and precise focus but falls short of my 2 channel system in soundstage width and depth.

But placement of instrument is more precise with HD 800S than my 2 channel system.

When I play "Surround Sound Demonstration CD" by Telarc, HD 800S gave very exciting presentation with fast and tight bass and precise focus without any hard edge.

I have two headphones and one IEM to compare with HD 800S.

The first one is 1MORE Triple-Driver Over-Ear Headphones sold by Drop at 130$.

This is light, pretty efficient and excellent value at 130$.

But compared with HD 800S, 1MORE Triple gave loose bass, less details and not precise focus.

1MORE Triple is no match at all with HD 800S.


The next one is Empire Zeus IEM sold by Drop(1k$ and 14 drivers in it).

Zeus IEM gave more sparkle with nice details.

But without equalization of 3db down at 6khz, Zeus sounds too bright overall while HD 800S sounds neutral without any eq..

Nice thing of Zeus IEM is very high efficiency to be driven by regular cell phone like Galaxy Note4.

Thus I will be happy to carry Zeus IEM out of town.

The placement of each instrument is slightly more precise with HD800s.

I will prefer playing HD800S to Zeus IEM at home.

The last one to compare is Stax 009S driven by KGSSV Carbon amplifier.

HD 800S gave wider and deeper soundstage than Stax 009S with more precise focus.

But Stax 009S give more musical sound with nuanced details, nice decay , more bass slam and texture.

HD800S give very tight and fast bass but not matching the authority of Stax 009s.

It bass sound like one note without texture.


The conclusion is that it is fun to listen to HD800S with sharp focus, wide and deep soundstage and tight and fast bass.

But HD800S falls short of either Stax 009s or my 2 channel system in musicality.

I will keep HD800S for at least one year to enjoy its precise imaging.



I am listening to opera "Aida" through 800S now.


The placement of each singer and instrument is so precise that it sounds more live than my 2 channel system.


I am using two of Sablon Audio Panatella BNC cables between Dave and Mscaler which is really good with reasonable price.

 

[kelly200269]

Yes, it really is worth it. I can't listen to non-m-scaled music anymore. I feel like the M-Scaler is a necessary addition to the TT2. The "digital" sound is gone, clarity improved, much better timing. If you really want to test it out though, maybe your local dealer has a unit you can listen to?

The M-Scaler has a pass through option, so you can easily tell the difference between non-M-scaled and M-scaled. Give it like 30 minutes listening to an album upscaled and then go back to pass through. You will hear why the M-Scaler is so good.

I bought the M-Scaler blind, and it was 100% worth it.

M Scaler is on its way! Yahooo!!

 

[zenlisten]

Yes, it really is worth it. I can't listen to non-m-scaled music anymore. I feel like the M-Scaler is a necessary addition to the TT2. The "digital" sound is gone, clarity improved, much better timing.

Exactly. In the past the difference between normal 16/44 CD-quality and high resolution music made me search through different online shops until I found the album I wanted in high resolution. High resolution sounded so much nicer, smoother and clearer. (I ended up buying many albums multiple times just because I found a higher resolution version later.) With the M Scaler these seeking became unnecessary, CD-quality sounds like high resolution. (An even MP3s get way better.)

When I had to send the M Scaler to the service the change was painful: 16/44 quality music sounded "digital" again. Not unlike when you are used to high resolution screens and then you go back to a screen where you see the individual pixels that make up the image. It somehow destroys the illusion and you realize you see a screen rather than what it shows. Some screen areas are nice, like a colorful rectangle. But some details, like fine curves and small print become rather ugly. It's like when you listen to solo violin without the M Scaler and you hear the imperfections instead of the music.

 

[Christer]

I received new Sennheiser HD 800S headphone yesterday.

Without any break-in, it did not show any hard edge.

Some IEM like Hifiman need more than 100 hours of break in before harsh treble is gone.

But after playing it for few hours, it seems to show more details and bass resonance.

From the review, I had expected HD 800S to sound bright and be prepared to apply equalization using Lyngdorf 2170 presets.

But driven by Chord Dave and Mscaler, it sounds neutral without any equalization.

I had played Chesky Jazz Sampler and Test disc to test soundstage width and depth.

It shows very sharp and precise focus but falls short of my 2 channel system in soundstage width and depth.

But placement of instrument is more precise with HD 800S than my 2 channel system.

When I play "Surround Sound Demonstration CD" by Telarc, HD 800S gave very exciting presentation with fast and tight bass and precise focus without any hard edge.

I have two headphones and one IEM to compare with HD 800S.

The first one is 1MORE Triple-Driver Over-Ear Headphones sold by Drop at 130$.

This is light, pretty efficient and excellent value at 130$.

But compared with HD 800S, 1MORE Triple gave loose bass, less details and not precise focus.

1MORE Triple is no match at all with HD 800S.


The next one is Empire Zeus IEM sold by Drop(1k$ and 14 drivers in it).

Zeus IEM gave more sparkle with nice details.

But without equalization of 3db down at 6khz, Zeus sounds too bright overall while HD 800S sounds neutral without any eq..

Nice thing of Zeus IEM is very high efficiency to be driven by regular cell phone like Galaxy Note4.

Thus I will be happy to carry Zeus IEM out of town.

The placement of each instrument is slightly more precise with HD800s.

I will prefer playing HD800S to Zeus IEM at home.

The last one to compare is Stax 009S driven by KGSSV Carbon amplifier.

HD 800S gave wider and deeper soundstage than Stax 009S with more precise focus.

But Stax 009S give more musical sound with nuanced details, nice decay , more bass slam and texture.

HD800S give very tight and fast bass but not matching the authority of Stax 009s.

It bass sound like one note without texture.


The conclusion is that it is fun to listen to HD800S with sharp focus, wide and deep soundstage and tight and fast bass.

But HD800S falls short of either Stax 009s or my 2 channel system in musicality.

I will keep HD800S for at least one year to enjoy its precise imaging.



I am listening to opera "Aida" through 800S now.


The placement of each singer and instrument is so precise that it sounds more live than my 2 channel system.


I am using two of Sablon Audio Panatella BNC cables between Dave and Mscaler which is really good with reasonable price.

Hmm...your mentioning Aida makes me a bit curious to know which recording of Aida you played?
There is as far as I know only one recent native 24/96 hi res,sound only, recording of Aida available.
The Pappano .
That recording has got quite an impressive dynamic range.
Very good material to test how good one's system is at reproducing both VERY VERY low level ppp music and BIG climaxes.
In my system my HEKV2 resolves the very low level ppp parts a wee bit better than my HD800 does.
Cheers CC

 

[Christer]

Exactly. In the past the difference between normal 16/44 CD-quality and high resolution music made me search through different online shops until I found the album I wanted in high resolution. High resolution sounded so much nicer, smoother and clearer. (I ended up buying many albums several times just because I found a higher resolution version later.) With the M Scaler these seeking became unnecessary, CD-quality sounds like high resolution. (An even MP3s get way better.)

When I had to send the M Scaler to the service the change was painful: 16/44 quality music sounded "digital" again. Not unlike when you are used to high resolution screens and then you go back to a screen where you see the individual pixels that make up the image. It somehow destroys the illusion and you realize you see a screen rather what it shows. Some screen areas are nice, like a colorful rectangle. But some details, like fine curves and small print become rather ugly. It's like when you listen to solo violin without the M Scaler and you hear the imperfections instead of the music.

So you've got your Mscaler back from service again?
Good to hear.
I also listen to a LOT of rbcd material since getting my HMS. And in some cases I am not even sure I would be able to hear much/ or any difference if I played the hi-res version of some recordings.
It is more question of how good the actual recording is for me in most cases now.
Before HMS I bought ONLY hi res recordings.
A remarkable example of rbcd at its best via HMS, is the harmonia mundi recording of Handel's early Opera Agrippina which sounds stunningly realistic in rbcd format via HMS.

But since you mention the violin,I wish I could say the same of some of Ann-Sofie Mutter's recordings for DGG.
I prefer her early recordings of Mozart's Violin Concertos on LP over her more recent rbcd set.
Her rbcd Korngold/Tchaikovsky Concertos for the same company sound better to me though.
But not even those come close enough to how warm and full her violin tone really is live.
And in an interview she admitted that when listening to recorded music at home, she often preferred to spin an LP over playing a cd.
I don't think she has got an HMS though?
Cheers CC

 

[thomaskong78]

I also include my subjective grading of Dac that I had auditioned from 2018 to present.

I had given 85 points to Dave and Mscaler.

Without Mscaler, Dave would get just 75 points.


My first serious audio system was Garrard turntable, Fisher Int(SS), ADS bookspeaker bought on 1978.

I bought Technics CD player on 1984.

It sound harsh and bright compared with vinyl.

I gave up vinyl when I moved from Berkeley to Chicago on 1988 since I had no room to carry in my small car.

I upgraded to California Audio Mark2 on 1989.

It was way better than Technics CD player with refined treble and better dynamics.

I had used passive pre, Krell KSA 150 to drive Apogee Duetta Sig.

On 1999, I upgraded to DCS Elgar and upsampler using CEC Tl0x transport.

Wow, I got the feeling that it could match good vinyl system.

But after using DCS Elgar for 6 years, it got out of order and I gave it up with uncertain repair cost and shipping to UK.

CEC Tl0x transport also had kept failing to read some CDs.

Thus I had changed to Accustic Arts CD transport and Dac which was a downgrade from DCS Elgar and upsampler using CEC Tl0x transport…

On 2010, I had got EMMLab Dac2 to replace Accustic Arts Dac.

It had excellent dynamics, details and soundstage which made me enjoy the music again with Lansche 4.1 speaker and Silbatone 300B SET amp.

On 2018 I had got Jay Audio CDT2 and Lyngdorf 2170 to use it as Room correction, Dac.

But after using it for 4 months, I found that Lyngdorf 2170 falls slightly short of EMMLab Dac2 on bass slam and details.

Thus I had auditioned several Dacs to upgrade from EMMLab Dac2.

Point 100
There is nothing to criticize over MSB Select II except its high price around 100K$.
It has magical relaxed texture similar to top grade vinyl.

Dynamics, details, soundstage are all excellent.

Point 95
Kalista Dreamplay transport and Dac
It is excellent matching MSB Select II on almost every aspects.

The only down side is that it does not have relaxed texture similar to top grade vinyl although it still sounds silky.

Point 91.
Trinity Dac
This one is also all round player with hard to criticize.
But it falls slightly short of MSB Select II on details and relaxed texture.

Point 90
Lampiziator Pacific Dac
I had auditioned this Dac with same setup with MSB Select II.

This one is also all round player with hard to criticize.
It falls slightly short of MSB Select II on dynamics and relaxed texture.
But this one has a nice bloom and full bodied sound,
which make some people prefer this one to MSB Select II

Point 85
Chord Dave and Mscaler(or Blue II transport)
This one give transparent and 3D soundstage with excellent details.
But it need good system matching.
It could sound analytical or hot coupled with bright combination of speaker and amplifier.
Without upscaling using Mscaler, its sound is mediocre around 75 points.

Point 84
MSB Premier with one more basic power supply
I had auditioned this one side by side with Lampiziator Pacific Dac.
It matches Pacific Dac with Dynamics, details, soundstage but fall short of Pacific Dac in magical bloom and full body.
With improved power supply or clock, its performance have room to improve further.

Point 80
Formula XHD Dac
I auditioned this one side by side with Trinity Dac
This one is a very musical player with full bloom.
But it falls short of Trinity Dac by one notch in dynamics and bass slam.

Point 79
TotalDac 6 tube version
This one is also a very musical player.
But from the point of audiophile, its dynamics, details, soundstage are all one notch below the standard set by MSB Select II.

Point 78
MSB Discrete Dac with one additional basic power supply.
This one has similar sound signature to MSB Premier
But it is half notch below MSB Premier on dynamics, details, soundstage.

Point 75
EmmLab Dac2
I paid 9K$ for this on 2010.
It matches Chord Dave and Mscaler on dynamics with slightly more bass slam.
But Chord Dave and Mscaler give more transparent and deeper soundstage than EmmLab Dac2 while soundstage width are comparable to each other.
This one has slightly fuller sound than Chord Dave and Mscaler.
It is still working fine after 10 years of use.

Point 73.

Lyngdorf 2170
This one has Dac, pre and power amp, active crossover and room correction functions.
It’s Dac sounds very similar to EmmLab Dac2 but with slightly less details and bass slam.

There are many Dacs to audition but I could not audition all of them.

I had bought Chord Dave and Mscaler late May.

Recently I play musicals and operas very often enjoying excellent 3D soundstage.

But I do not believe that I can live with Chord Dave and Mscaler for my life.

If some innovative Dac better than MSB Select II come out under 50K$ in the future, then I will upgrade to it.

Otherwise, I expect to use Chord Dave and Mscaler for 3 years or longer.

 

[rkt31]

I also include my subjective grading of Dac that I had auditioned from 2018 to present.

I had given 85 points to Dave and Mscaler.

Without Mscaler, Dave would get just 75 points.


My first serious audio system was Garrard turntable, Fisher Int(SS), ADS bookspeaker bought on 1978.

I bought Technics CD player on 1984.

It sound harsh and bright compared with vinyl.

I gave up vinyl when I moved from Berkeley to Chicago on 1988 since I had no room to carry in my small car.

I upgraded to California Audio Mark2 on 1989.

It was way better than Technics CD player with refined treble and better dynamics.

I had used passive pre, Krell KSA 150 to drive Apogee Duetta Sig.

On 1999, I upgraded to DCS Elgar and upsampler using CEC Tl0x transport.

Wow, I got the feeling that it could match good vinyl system.

But after using DCS Elgar for 6 years, it got out of order and I gave it up with uncertain repair cost and shipping to UK.

CEC Tl0x transport also had kept failing to read some CDs.

Thus I had changed to Accustic Arts CD transport and Dac which was a downgrade from DCS Elgar and upsampler using CEC Tl0x transport…

On 2010, I had got EMMLab Dac2 to replace Accustic Arts Dac.

It had excellent dynamics, details and soundstage which made me enjoy the music again with Lansche 4.1 speaker and Silbatone 300B SET amp.

On 2018 I had got Jay Audio CDT2 and Lyngdorf 2170 to use it as Room correction, Dac.

But after using it for 4 months, I found that Lyngdorf 2170 falls slightly short of EMMLab Dac2 on bass slam and details.

Thus I had auditioned several Dacs to upgrade from EMMLab Dac2.

Point 100
There is nothing to criticize over MSB Select II except its high price around 100K$.
It has magical relaxed texture similar to top grade vinyl.

Dynamics, details, soundstage are all excellent.

Point 95
Kalista Dreamplay transport and Dac
It is excellent matching MSB Select II on almost every aspects.

The only down side is that it does not have relaxed texture similar to top grade vinyl although it still sounds silky.

Point 91.
Trinity Dac
This one is also all round player with hard to criticize.
But it falls slightly short of MSB Select II on details and relaxed texture.

Point 90
Lampiziator Pacific Dac
I had auditioned this Dac with same setup with MSB Select II.

This one is also all round player with hard to criticize.
It falls slightly short of MSB Select II on dynamics and relaxed texture.
But this one has a nice bloom and full bodied sound,
which make some people prefer this one to MSB Select II

Point 85
Chord Dave and Mscaler(or Blue II transport)
This one give transparent and 3D soundstage with excellent details.
But it need good system matching.
It could sound analytical or hot coupled with bright combination of speaker and amplifier.
Without upscaling using Mscaler, its sound is mediocre around 75 points.

Point 84
MSB Premier with one more basic power supply
I had auditioned this one side by side with Lampiziator Pacific Dac.
It matches Pacific Dac with Dynamics, details, soundstage but fall short of Pacific Dac in magical bloom and full body.
With improved power supply or clock, its performance have room to improve further.

Point 80
Formula XHD Dac
I auditioned this one side by side with Trinity Dac
This one is a very musical player with full bloom.
But it falls short of Trinity Dac by one notch in dynamics and bass slam.

Point 79
TotalDac 6 tube version
This one is also a very musical player.
But from the point of audiophile, its dynamics, details, soundstage are all one notch below the standard set by MSB Select II.

Point 78
MSB Discrete Dac with one additional basic power supply.
This one has similar sound signature to MSB Premier
But it is half notch below MSB Premier on dynamics, details, soundstage.

Point 75
EmmLab Dac2
I paid 9K$ for this on 2010.
It matches Chord Dave and Mscaler on dynamics with slightly more bass slam.
But Chord Dave and Mscaler give more transparent and deeper soundstage than EmmLab Dac2 while soundstage width are comparable to each other.
This one has slightly fuller sound than Chord Dave and Mscaler.
It is still working fine after 10 years of use.

Point 73.

Lyngdorf 2170
This one has Dac, pre and power amp, active crossover and room correction functions.
It’s Dac sounds very similar to EmmLab Dac2 but with slightly less details and bass slam.

There are many Dacs to audition but I could not audition all of them.

I had bought Chord Dave and Mscaler late May.

Recently I play musicals and operas very often enjoying excellent 3D soundstage.

But I do not believe that I can live with Chord Dave and Mscaler for my life.

If some innovative Dac better than MSB Select II come out under 50K$ in the future, then I will upgrade to it.

Otherwise, I expect to use Chord Dave and Mscaler for 3 years or longer.

Nagra dacx is currently the best of the best and even that does not have the timing of tt2+ HMS. Making sound musical is not the trait a dac should have. A dac should make things life like and only way to do it is timing. I am afraid msb select falls short in that area.

 

[thomaskong78]

Hmm...your mentioning Aida makes me a bit curious to know which recording of Aida you played?
There is as far as I know only one recent native 24/96 hi res,sound only, recording of Aida available.
The Pappano .
That recording has got quite an impressive dynamic range.
Very good material to test how good one's system is at reproducing both VERY VERY low level ppp music and BIG climaxes.
In my system my HEKV2 resolves the very low level ppp parts a wee bit better than my HD800 does.
Cheers CC

Brigitt Nilsson sings but it is ripped in the music server without more information.

No headphone can beat my 2 channel system in dynamics but I found hd800s very good at imaging and soundstage enough to enjoy opera.

 

[thomaskong78]

Nagra dacx is currently the best of the best and even that does not have the timing of tt2+ HMS. Making sound musical is not the trait a dac should have. A dac should make things life like and only way to do it is timing. I am afraid msb select falls short in that area.

I heard good things about Nagra dacx. but I had not heard it myself yet.

I am not in a rush to find other Dac since I am happy with Dave and Mscaler as Dac and Dap

 

[Amberlamps]

Brigitt Nilsson sings but it is ripped in the music server without more information.

No headphone can beat my 2 channel system in dynamics but I found hd800s very good at imaging and soundstage enough to enjoy opera.

Brigitte Nielson, Rambo's ex husband ?

Singing ?

Dafuq

 

[zzhi36]

May I ask if anyone has ever had any problem when you added ifi igalvanic in between PC and M Scaler?
I am using my PC for work and listen music, there's a lot of noises while I am working or using other applications, so I decided to add igalvanic for reducing the noise. It really works, but the bad thing is, it's really unstable and always disconnected after running for every 10 to 15mins.
So feel a bit frustrated now...

 

[miketlse]

One thing to check is whether the mscaler is deactivating the input signal processing if it detects no usb 5V signal for 15 mins. Maybe the ifi is blocking the 5V power bus.

 

[zzhi36]

One thing to check is whether the mscaler is deactivating the input signal processing if it detects no usb 5V signal for 15 mins. Maybe the ifi is blocking the 5V power bus.

Thanks for that, I just checked the igalvanic spec and stated that the output is 5V. So maybe my PC's problem...

 

[zenlisten]

So you've got your Mscaler back from service again?
Good to hear.

Yes. Here's the full story in bullet points:

1. After purchasing and using M Scaler and TT2 I noticed infrequent subtle crackling, mostly on the right-hand side. A single subtle noise, not unlike a little electric spark. Was present in all headphones.
2. Tried switching off every other electric device (including wifi router, computer, even lamps), only left the music related devices running, sent music from my mobile phone. The problem was still there.
3. Changed wall outlets. The problem was still there.
4. Bought a power conditioner. The problem was still there.
5. Bought a pair of shielded and ferrite-equipped BNC cables. The problem was still there.
6. Bought an USB → Toslink converter. The problem was still there.
7. Exchanged every component one by one. If M Scaler was removed (even if the music was upscaled to 700+ kHz via software to make up for it) the problem was gone.
8. Someone in another country told me they had a similar problem which was admitted by the repair center and subsequently fixed by installing a new motherboard from Chord.
9. In the hope that the same will happen to my device I brought it to the dealer who sent it to the official repair center. My instructions were included.
10. The repair staff could not reproduce the problem for weeks (during which they asked me additionally what BNC cables I used).
11. After 5 weeks they sent the device back to me, unchanged.
12. I put back the M Scaler exactly where it was: same cables, same position, same hardware and software.
13. I haven't been able to reproduce the issue ever since. The M Scaler now works as it should, free from the occasional crackling.

I cannot explain why this happened and what the root cause was. Maybe there was something inside the M Scaler which moved as the device was transported in a vertical position? Some people in this thread mentioned "loose screws" in their Chord devices, maybe something similar happened here?

Anyway, it was not nice to spend the first month experimenting and buying additional equipment, then another 5 weeks waiting for the repair, unnecessarily.

And although it seems to be working now, maybe the next time the device will be transported the issue may reappear. :/

 

[Progisus]

I

Yes. Here's the full story in bullet points:

1. After purchasing and using M Scaler and TT2 I noticed infrequent subtle crackling, mostly on the right-hand side. A single subtle noise, not unlike a little electric spark. Was present in all headphones.
2. Tried switching off every other electric device (including wifi router, computer, even lamps), only left the music related devices running, sent music from my mobile phone. The problem was still there.
3. Changed wall outlets. The problem was still there.
4. Bought a power conditioner. The problem was still there.
5. Bought a pair of shielded and ferrite-equipped BNC cables. The problem was still there.
6. Bought an USB → Toslink converter. The problem was still there.
7. Exchanged every component one by one. If M Scaler was removed (even if the music was upscaled to 700+ kHz via software to make up for it) the problem was gone.
8. Someone in another country told me they had a similar problem which was admitted by the repair center and subsequently fixed by installing a new motherboard from Chord.
9. In the hope that the same will happen to my device I brought it to the dealer who sent it to the official repair center. My instructions were included.
10. The repair staff could not reproduce the problem for weeks (during which they asked me additionally what BNC cables I used).
11. After 5 weeks they sent the device back to me, unchanged.
12. I put back the M Scaler exactly where it was: same cables, same position, same hardware and software.
13. I haven't been able to reproduce the issue ever since. The M Scaler now works as it should, free from the occasional crackling.

I cannot explain why this happened and what the root cause was. Maybe there was something inside the M Scaler which moved as the device was transported in a vertical position? Some people in this thread mentioned "loose screws" in their Chord devices, maybe something similar happened here?

Anyway, it was not nice to spend the first month experimenting and buying additional equipment, then another 5 weeks waiting for the repair, unnecessarily.

And although it seems to be working now, maybe the next time the device will be transported the issue may reappear. :/

It was lucky I heard the loose screw and was able to remove it before powering up. Unfortunately I had to wait a few weeks for the three different security screwdrivers required to get past the rfi shield to replace it. I am disappointed in Chord’s quality control at this price point. The distributor did offer to exchange but at my cost.