[Chester Rockwell]

Not sure I understand why you guys are using optical at all; from a jitter perspective I've always understood it to be the worst of the connectivity options?

Historically that was generally true, but all Chord DACs are completely immune to optical jitter. So a connection that is jitter free and provides total isolation is rightly the reference. I believe PS Audio DACs claim the same too.

 

[onlychild]

In my testing, I’ve found that optical from source to Mscaler is not the complete isolation I thought it to be. I’m currently running an Innuos Zen mini mk3 optical out to mscaler. When a song is playing, and I unplug the Ethernet cord on the zen, I can immediately hear a reduction in high frequency glare/hardness. I have not done any optimization to my network yet.

If optical was fully isolated, then any upstream changes should not matter, but looks like EVERYTHING matters.

Dan’s OptoDX boxes did reduce the difference from plugging/unplugging the Ethernet cord on the Zen, but there is still a difference, though smaller then before. I honestly think the OptoDX boxes take care of noise produced straight from the Mscaler, so they will have an added benefit even with a top end server.

I will be receiving my Innuos Statement in about a week so will do some basic testing of USB out of Statement vs optical out of Zen Mini MK3 before sending the zen mini back. I’m really curious how much of a difference it will make with the OptoDX boxes being used also. Will report back.

Edit: optical out of zen mini does sound better than USB out of Zen mini

 

[Chester Rockwell]

In my testing, I’ve found that optical from source to Mscaler is not the complete isolation I thought it to be. I’m currently running an Innuos Zen mini mk3 optical out to mscaler. When a song is playing, and I unplug the Ethernet cord on the zen, I can immediately hear a reduction in high frequency glare/hardness. I have not done any optimization to my network yet.

If optical was fully isolated, then any upstream changes should not matter, but looks like EVERYTHING matters.

Dan’s OptoDX boxes did reduce the difference from plugging/unplugging the Ethernet cord on the Zen, but there is still a difference, though smaller then before. I honestly think the OptoDX boxes take care of noise produced straight from the Mscaler, so they will have an added benefit even with a top end server.

I will be receiving my Innuos Statement in about a week so will do some basic testing of USB out of Statement vs optical out of Zen Mini MK3 before sending the zen mini back. I’m really curious how much of a difference it will make with the OptoDX boxes being used also. Will report back.

Edit: optical out of zen mini does sound better than USB out of Zen mini

This is interesting. Yes please do report back.

So it sounds like noise from your network is travelling through the Ethernet connection, out of the Zen mini’s power cable and into other parts of your chain via the power lines then? Given noise can’t physically transverse the optical cable?

 

[onlychild]

This is interesting. Yes please do report back.

So it sounds like noise from your network is travelling through the Ethernet connection, out of the Zen mini’s power cable and into other parts of your chain via the power lines then? Given noise can’t physically transverse the optical cable?

I’m not sure if it’s traveling through the power cable since I have the Zen on a linear power supply and a heavily shielded Ghent Audio DC cable and the Mscaler is always on a Pilot Pro Battery with the same DC type able.

 

[kerisabe]

I’m not sure if it’s traveling through the power cable since I have the Zen on a linear power supply and a heavily shielded Ghent Audio DC cable and the Mscaler is always on a Pilot Pro Battery with the same DC type able.

Try using an “audiophile” ethernet cable like the AQ diamond, sotm or revelation audio labs, it really makes alot of difference. Running linear lps on the router/switcher helps as well.

 

[Chester Rockwell]

@onlychild

Hmmmm, interesting that the M Scaler is running on battery. What DAC does the M Scaler connect to? Is it mains connected?

And are you running this system into amps and speakers?

If so, then I would personally still be looking at noise getting into your system somewhere from the mains, either the DAC itself or the amps. Most likely the amps I guess given the Chord DACS seem pretty well insulated from external noise, in my limited experience of course.

 

[514077]

And then there are people reporting differences in optical connections...
So some optical connections are more truer than others?
But I do agree that optical eliminates a world of pain that can stowaway in an electrical connection.

My assumption was that all optical sound the same but I don’t disbelieve others reports here and on the Qutest thread of very noticeable differences. I’ve spent many years in this hobby making such assumptions that something doesn’t affect the audible sound only to experience later that it does. Right now I am confounded that changes in the DC power cable on my source prior to even getting to the M Scaler can make such an audible difference.

Could be the varying quality of optical trancceivers themselves?

 

[onlychild]

Try using an “audiophile” ethernet cable like the AQ diamond, sotm or revelation audio labs, it really makes alot of difference. Running linear lps on the router/switcher helps as well.

Yes, that is the plan for the next phase, network optimization. I was just mentioning that even with optical, source changes matter in my system.

@onlychild

Hmmmm, interesting that the M Scaler is running on battery. What DAC does the M Scaler connect to? Is it mains connected?

And are you running this system into amps and speakers?

If so, then I would personally still be looking at noise getting into your system somewhere from the mains, either the DAC itself or the amps. Most likely the amps I guess given the Chord DACS seem pretty well insulated from external noise, in my limited experience of course.

Connects to DAVE feeding HE1kse/Empyrean directly. No amps, no speakers. Dave and Zen mini are both connected to a Sound Application line conditioner and those are the only two things requiring power from mains. Since Zen mini is powered by an LPS, I don’t think that noise is coming from zen into Dave.

I found the mscaler to sound better on the battery vs the stock smps.

Also using a Wireworld Super Nova 7 optical cable ($200)

 

[kerisabe]

@onlychild noted. Theoritically after proper ethernet cable, router/switch lps, adding active grounding block to the router/switch would also help. Need to listen and see how much u should add/substract according to your system/liking.

 

[George Hincapie]

Historically that was generally true, but all Chord DACs are completely immune to optical jitter. So a connection that is jitter free and provides total isolation is rightly the reference. I believe PS Audio DACs claim the same too.

Immune? Really? How is that achieved? If that's true then I can completely understand why - every day's a school day!

 

[miketlse]

Immune? Really? How is that achieved? If that's true then I can completely understand why - every day's a school day!

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hug...official-thread.885042/page-510#post-15082015

 

[BassicScience]

Immune? Really? How is that achieved? If that's true then I can completely understand why - every day's a school day!

Incoming data is buffered and then fed to the DAC running off a very low jitter local clock. Any modern DAC worth its salt uses such methodology.

 

[AxelCloris]

Let's please keep the discussion on topic and within the Posting Guidelines. Thanks everyone.

 

[ZappaMan]

Cool, I want to keep things on topic.
I think mscaler thread is really interesting place where people are learning about rf
It applies to all dacs not just chord, it just so happens us cool cats paid thousands to be chord owners, who want to discuss rf, whilst keeping things on topic.
A healthy discussion engages members and potential customers.
Let’s seek transparency in dacs and community life

 

[ekfc63]

I picked up an M Scaler this week and have it connected via BNCs to my Hugo 2. Love it.

I have a question. When I was demoing it in the store (with CD player and TT2) I was able to cycle through the sample rates using the button on the M Scaler and hear the differences. This doesn’t work with my setup. I only get sound when the sample button is set to white. No sound when red, green or blue. What am I doing wrong?