Hugo M Scaler by Chord Electronics - The Official Thread

[bpcans]

As I sit here listening to a relatively recent 96kHz 24bit recording of Mozart’s Die Zauberflöte from 2018 with an excellent German to English libretto, my heart goes out to those following this thread who haven’t been able to find a satisfactory way to incorporate the M Scaler into their music playback systems. https://static.qobuz.com/goodies/18/000127981.pdf

My M Scaler sits quietly in the corner behind my gear rack where I only glance over at it to check the sample rate of the recordings that I'm listening to.

Clean power and RFI mitigation are a necessity! I want to especially thank those unfailingly kind and knowledgeable enthusiasts who have helped me along the way.

 

[dac64]

Hi folks, wondering is it normal that the body of M scaler carry some electric? Seems like a ground issue, when I touch it I can feel some electric on it, and if I'm wearing a LCD-5, I can hear the hum when I touch the M scaler, the hum go away when I take off my hand... Wondering is it a quality issue of my unit or a common issue?
My TT2 doesn't have this issue, given they both plugged on the same power outlet

Use a test pen to check the BNC connectors, I think is the input BNC, just short it to the ground. Sound might better!

Power outlet, is that a power conditioner or just a wall outlet?

You may want to pull out all the equipment from the wall outlets and test it one by one via a test pen then incrementally plug in the equipment one by one to the wall outlet.

 

[Rob Watts]

Hi Rob,

Hope you had a good CanJam. Wondering if you had a chance to try 9v from the Krisdonia? Any perceptible differences?

Also you mentioned before if one uses a power bank this would mitigate most of the RF noise seeping into the M-Scaler which would make ferrited BNC cables not as needed? Wondering on your take. Thanks again.

Yes I did on my flight to Chicago, and like you preferred the 9v setting - smoother, warmer with better depth. But I am sure it's a Krisdonia issue, but it's something I need to look into. I have very little confidence in the Krisdonia units, as they last for 50% of the time they are supposed to. In my past I have used 4 different power bank manufactures - only PowerAdd actually was reliable and delivered exactly what they promised. But my old PowerAdd unit is 6 years old and doesn't keep it's charge any more. I can't get them in the UK any more, but I need to get one.

Yes the battery eliminated the need for better BNC cables - but that listening test was done with the PowerAdd Pilot Pro.

 

[ra990]

Yes the battery eliminated the need for better BNC cables - but that listening test was done with the PowerAdd Pilot Pro.

Thanks for confirming.

 

[Somatic]

@Rob Watts

Hope all is well.

I am using a PC (toslink or USB). For example when using exclusive mode and switching sample rates 24/44.1, 24/48, 24/96. I get an audio artifact. When the upscaled sample rate using dual BNC switches from 768khz to 705khz such as going from 24/48 to 24/44.1. It produces a half second of audio sample (buffer?). Sounds like slowed down reversed audio sample before switching tracks. This happens with USB or Optical using the Mscaler but not solo Dave. The issue seems to be with the Mscaler upscaling from 705khz to 768khz in realtime. Seems it can't keep up without some audio artifacts.

Am I missing something? Have you heard of this issue before? Thanks.

 

[MvRBE10]

I believe all have that, mine also i have a 2-3sec window programmed in my streamer so i dont hear the clicks… pretty normal for that combo. Indeed only with high bitrate changes, never when it stays the same.

 

[Somatic]

I believe all have that, mine also i have a 2-3sec window programmed in my streamer so i dont hear the clicks… pretty normal for that combo. Indeed only with high bitrate changes, never when it stays the same.

I see. I guess its a non issue if one is listening to an album or same sample rate but if one is playing random files, I can see it getting annoying at times.

 

[MvRBE10]

With the windowing i never had any issues.

 

[Somatic]

I haven’t listened to TT2 at all. But having hung around this forum for a while and having brought my Mojo, Hugo 2 and DAVE to my local Head-Fi meet and seen people’s responses and how they compare it to other DACs and amps, I would say the main issue is that people listen for different things and are able to hear different things. This includes:
1) How loud can the DAC/amps go (without clipping or distortion)
2) How much 2nd order harmonic distortion does the DAC/amp give (for a specific sound signature and a fake soundstage width)
3) How does the amp’s impedance affect the frequency response of their favorite headphones to their pleasing
4) How much transparency and microdetails can be heard in the music (TT2 vs DAVE DAC elements & noise shaper)
5) What is the soundstage depth (Hugo 2 vs TT2 vs DAVE DAC elements & noise shaper)
6) How accurate is the transient (Hugo 2 vs TT2 vs DAVE vs M-Scaler tap length)
7) Do I get a holographic feel (this can be a combo of distortions and WTA tap length)
8) Is the bass fatter/leaner or dynamic/warm/smooth (this can be a combo of distortions and WTA tap length and the pulse array DAC elements and noise shaping)
For me, the unanswered question is: Can everyone learn to hear everything?
To me, @dcp10 can clearly hear everything I mentioned above. It’s just that you notice the tap length difference between TT2 & DAVE a lot more than the difference between the TT2’s 10-element pulse array DAC with its 12th order noise shaper and DAVE’s 20-elements with its 17th order noise shaper (e.g. less congested orchestral sound).
But there are lots of people who post in this thread who says M-Scaler makes no difference (because they can’t hear the difference in tap length) or makes very little difference (because they can hear but don’t care for the difference).
But I know it’s difficult to accept sometimes if our favorite hobby is high-end audio and to find out that we can’t hear the difference between top-end gear. I imagine it’ll be no different than people who love expensive wine but they can’t taste the difference. Except I, myself, had DAVE and Mojo for 1.5 years and I couldn’t tell the difference between the tap length until going to a live orchestral concert one day and then it finally clicked. So I think it happens to all of us. It is just difficult to learn how to listen. And I know many people who can tell the difference but would prefer a particular sound signature that I don’t like.
Since this is all a hobby but we are spending our own money, I think people should buy whatever gear they like with the maximum bang for the buck.

Honestly I personally feel the difference using the Mscaler is subtle. I can hear the better bass reproduction, differences in pitch better, timbre sounds a bit more real, soundstage increases. But I dont see a 50% delta more like 2-10%. I'm now more curious to see the differences from using DC4 or Farad3.

 

[MvRBE10]

Honestly I personally feel the difference using the Mscaler is subtle. I can hear the better bass reproduction, differences in pitch better, timbre sounds a bit more real, soundstage increases. But I dont see a 50% delta more like 2-10%. I'm now more curious to see the differences from using DC4 or Farad3.

I would say for what its worth a 25% more musical dac. I cannot compare the dave before and after lps upgrade it excells in everything. If your whole system is in synergy you will only smile

 

[Somatic]

I would say for what its worth a 25% more musical dac. I cannot compare the dave before and after lps upgrade it excells in everything. If your whole system is in synergy you will only smile

Did you opt in for the furutech inlets and SR purple fuses?

Edit: Your going to make me join the dark side. I like the idea of a solo Dave ...

 

[MvRBE10]

As i tested all versions and options to see what works best with the dave we came with silver dc leads and rodium inlets. I noticed the purple fuses gave everything a bit more air. Same as ethernet upgrade effect. And i use the furutech 021 or 031 as ac cable these pair in general best with the farads. All these little things make the whole sing. But it also have to fit in someones budget so hence the choices

 

[Rob Watts]

@Rob Watts

Hope all is well.

I am using a PC (toslink or USB). For example when using exclusive mode and switching sample rates 24/44.1, 24/48, 24/96. I get an audio artifact. When the upscaled sample rate using dual BNC switches from 768khz to 705khz such as going from 24/48 to 24/44.1. It produces a half second of audio sample (buffer?). Sounds like slowed down reversed audio sample before switching tracks. This happens with USB or Optical using the Mscaler but not solo Dave. The issue seems to be with the Mscaler upscaling from 705khz to 768khz in realtime. Seems it can't keep up without some audio artifacts.

Am I missing something? Have you heard of this issue before? Thanks.

Yes the problem is the internal memory has data, and when the SR changes, that data gets clocked out at the new rate, not the old one. With Roon and JRiver you can add a delay so that with sample rate changes zero is sent out, and that fixes the issue.

Hearing wrong speed data usually happens when you change tracks on the fly; if you stop the track then go to the next one, then that also fixes it too.

 

[Reactcore]

Yes the problem is the internal memory has data, and when the SR changes, that data gets clocked out at the new rate, not the old one. With Roon and JRiver you can add a delay so that with sample rate changes zero is sent out, and that fixes the issue.

Hearing wrong speed data usually happens when you change tracks on the fly; if you stop the track then go to the next one, then that also fixes it too.

I tried this once but no luck..
But now i guess i realize this delay must be add AFTER the stop of a track? ..not before.

Can you point us to where in Jriver this setting is located?

 

[Rob Watts]

I tried this once but no luck..
But now i guess i realize this delay must be add AFTER the stop of a track? ..not before.

Can you point us to where in Jriver this setting is located?

Go to tools>options>settings

Then set "play silence @ startup for hardware sync: 5 sec"
and set "switch tracks standard gap"
and make sure "do not play silence" is unchecked

Never had any issues with SR or track changes with these settings.