[upstateguy]

I'm still open to an evaluation session before sending my original model back for the M mod. Let me know if this is a possibility.

USG

 

[909]

that would be interesting...

 

[jamato8]

If they are using dead soft silver, which is what they advertise, then the break-in/burn-in will not be too long. I started making and selling dead soft silver cables before any one advertised them or was using it (as far as I know). That was back in 1989. I used teflon tubing and 99.999 purity later on from a company that garantees the purity. Most companies use 99.99 because that is what is easily available and what jewerly supply houses carry. You have to hunt for the higher purity stuff. I found a company that has their silver refined for them so they know what they are getting. They had two runs of different guage run at a higher purity but there wasn't too high a demand. I could have gotten 99.9999 but the price is sky high and I am not worried about a little bit of gold, copper, sulfur that might be in the mix. What is really nice is mono crystal silver but that is a different story.

Anyway, with my experience of using true dead soft silver there is little break-in compared to what used to be used that could take almost forever.

 

[Romanee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamato8 If they are using dead soft silver, which is what they advertise, then the break-in/burn-in will not be too long. I started making and selling dead soft silver cables before any one advertised them or was using it (as far as I know). That was back in 1989. I used teflon tubing and 99.999 purity later on from a company that garantees the purity. Most companies use 99.99 because that is what is easily available and what jewerly supply houses carry. You have to hunt for the higher purity stuff. I found a company that has their silver refined for them so they know what they are getting. They had two runs of different guage run at a higher purity but there wasn't too high a demand. I could have gotten 99.9999 but the price is sky high and I am not worried about a little bit of gold, copper, sulfur that might be in the mix. What is really nice is mono crystal silver but that is a different story. Anyway, with my experience of using true dead soft silver there is little break-in compared to what used to be used that could take almost forever.

Interesting.

I'm not familiar with the term "dead soft silver". Perhaps you can get some info regarding the specific materials used in the ALO Cotton Dock, Jumbo Cotton and Jumbo Silk Dock cables.

The Jumbo Silk Dock has improved a bit after one day of play, but does not sound optimal yet. I suspect it may have "a ways to go" in that regard. I didn't log my time on the Cotton Dock, but after a few dozen hours the initial "veiled" effect I heard cleared up. I don't know how many hours it took before I felt the sound attained the "neutrality" I liked so much, and that had made it my favorite IC to date.

 

[jamato8]

The annealing process is what it is about. If it is too fast a cooling then the metal is harder. They use quinching to cool a metal fast and it changes the crystalline properties and can make a metal brittle. Cooling it slowly allows for annealing, decreases the stresses within the metal. The borders between the silver crystal that makes up the wire also change and the way the electrons flow also is changed, depending upon how the metal is worked. I used the term dead soft years ago and after a few years others started picking up on it. It is nothing new and has been used in metallurgy for a very long time.

One reason I always used bare silver was I wanted a mostly air dielectric, which using teflon tubing accomplishes and when an insulator is applied to silver or copper or whatever, the heat of the dielectric changes the annealed metal, which is not what you want if you have it annealed correctly. You have no real control over the properties once a dielectric is applied. So dead soft silver is cooled very slowly for a long annealing period allowing it to be about as soft as possible.

 

[Romanee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamato8 The annealing process is what it is about. If it is too fast a cooling then the metal is harder. They use quinching to cool a metal fast and it changes the crystalline properties and can make a metal brittle. Cooling it slowly allows for annealing, decreases the stresses within the metal. The borders between the silver crystal that makes up the wire also change and the way the electrons flow also is changed, depending upon how the metal is worked. I used the term dead soft years ago and after a few years others started picking up on it. It is nothing new and has been used in metallurgy for a very long time. One reason I always used bare silver was I wanted a mostly air dielectric, which using teflon tubing accomplishes and when an insulator is applied to silver or copper or whatever, the heat of the dielectric changes the annealed metal, which is not what you want if you have it annealed correctly. You have no real control over the properties once a dielectric is applied. So dead soft silver is cooled very slowly for a long annealing period allowing it to be about as soft as possible.

Thanks for the informative reponse!

Was your "dead soft silver" note referring to ALO? I couldn't find any reference to that at ALO, or to the annealing process of their silver. The only notes I found were that they use 99.99% silver (since 4 nines silver's price had jumped sharply). The ALO FAQ regarding break in time notes: "My Silver LOD will be sounding sweet right out of the box, its performance continues to improve throughout approximately the first 100-200 hours of break in time."

Any further helpful thoughts?

Sorry if all this seems off-topic, but it does affect how we hear these amps.

 

[Romanee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstateguy I'm still open to an evaluation session before sending my original model back for the M mod. Let me know if this is a possibility. USG

Me too, but my schedule is a mess for a couple of weeks due to attending NY Film Festival events nights and weekends with my wife.

 

[jamato8]

"Solid 99.99% Dead Soft Silver, why settle for cheap stranded copper conductors? Ultra flexible, hear the clarity you have been missing with a AudioLineOut silver mini to mini interconnect.
Nickel Neutrik mini connectors"

This is from the site. It seems to be listed with just one of the IC's but I would imagine it is used with all. I guess I am lucky or have a good supplier as the 99.9995 I get is a good price, though more than regular silver. To up the price of 99.99 (which is 2 nines, copper is graded by all the nines but silver by the nines after the decimal point) is suspect and I would switch suppliers as there are plenty out there that have good prices on this wire with the same purity. The 99.999 isn't that bad a price either but I agree, I can't hear the difference. I have silver that has been open to air in a teflon tubing for about 14 years with no real tarnishing. Silver oxide is also a good conductor and does not cause the problems that copper oxide does so even if you have silver oxide it doesn't really cause a problem.

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by upstateguy I'm still open to an evaluation session before sending my original model back for the M mod. Let me know if this is a possibility. USG

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romanee Me too, but my schedule is a mess for a couple of weeks due to attending NY Film Festival events nights and weekends with my wife.

We're going to have a very interesting test..... My fully "conditioned" original amp, Jahn's panasonic version and your fully "conditioned" M model.... but that's not going to be the most interesting comparison...

Since I have the original stock model, Ray will be replacing the cap with the newer panasonic cap, so what I will get back will be a completely "unconditioned" M model to compare with Romanee's.......

With a number of us listening, maybe we will be able to make a definitive statement on the "burn in" phenomena?

Waddaya think?

USG