[ericj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seaside /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do we honestly believe that they didn't know what could happen just like us, dumb ordinary people? No, they set the stage for us, turned housing market into a casino, encouraging dumb people play hard by providing no regulations, ninja (No income no job application) loan... etc. The answer to me is simple. They let this happen, because they are even greedier than ordinary people.

Actually there are innumerable credible accounts that the investment banks openly admitted within their own ranks that they expected to get bailed out by the government when the house of cards finally fell.

Heads should roll. I don't know that enough of them will. There have been some investigations of seriously egregious lenders resulting in some charges of fraud, but, it's not enough.

fwiw, there was some research last week that indicated that owner-occupied homes couldn't possibly account for more than $180B in bad debt. This would seem to indicate that if the total is around $700B, most of it is in commercial realestate and speculation.

 

[chadbang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by synaesthetic /img/forum/go_quote.gif ]I live in an apartment, and I'm not embarrassed about it. Yeah it's a little run-down, it's not in the best neighborhood, it can be loud with the car stereos and whatnot.

You just described my place, in California, $1,400 a month rent.

 

[Edwood]

I bought a condo in California for rent control basically. Even though I have a very conservative loan (80% 30 yr fixed, 10% 2nd loan, and paid 10% down with cash), I have no illusions of home ownership. Probably because a condo is just a glorified apartment. Except, a bank and state of California is my landlord, and they can't raise my rent or tell me to move out as long as I keep sending them money.

My condo is small and cramped. It cost me a personal fortune that I could barely afford. Yet, the banks were willing to lend me 3 times as much money. I have no sympathy for those people leaving million dollar plus homes behind that they could never afford.

All the responsible people will be stuck paying the bill though.

-Ed

 

[lextek]

I guess we should be happy to have jobs and able to pay the bills. Of course afford our hobbies/addictions.

All kidding aside, it really is sad.

 

[F107plus5]

Very sad indeed. While I was watching the Video at the beginning of this thread; the Wife noticed my reaching for a Kleenex. She knows that I easily shed a tear during a sad drama or even a touching piece of music, and asked what I was listening to.

"A C-SPAN report".

Yeah; that comment needed further explanation.

Oops...."How's your street?"

Actually not too bad. Most of the homes and families around here have been just about the same as they were before the current silliness, although there was tons of construction not too far from us. We don't know what it's like within all those walled communities cuz ya can't see inside and there are laws about putting real estate signs on the lawns.

We; on the other hand had to move here in '04 when our Daughter realized she couldn't care properly for her four kids in a failing economy and gave them to us to raise right after I retired. We were cool though since the housing bubble was still fairly small and we were able to get out of our EmptyNester home and into a much larger one while the prices were still reasonable and we were able to pay cash for it. We got stung by a Credit Card company back in 1981 and cerimoniously cut the card into the max number of little pieces we could comfortably render from the amount of plastic available and although I seem to remember a President "acting" as though we were making a mistake by not replacing that card cuz it was patriotic to "Buy Buy Buy" since everyone knew that the Middle Class was the Backbone of the Economy, and the Economy would "Grow Grow Grow" if we simply "Bought Bought Bought"!

Sad; so many in the Middle Class bought themselves right into the Lower Class.

 

[kydsid]

Its a sign of the times. But as a result after just moving I was able to pick up a $180,000 home for 118k. After the home inspection and several walk throughs it was obvious the previous home owner couldn't afford the place. Two the bedrooms didn't have any furniture marks in the carpet. The windows had staples left from where they had stapled cloth to the windows instead of curtains. They couldn't afford a garage door opener so they just parked in the driveway, ie can see the greese stains in driveway and not in garage.

 

[NoHands]

only just watched the video,feel sorry for the people who had to leave thyr house, but dude those trashers have an awesome job! did you see the size of the tv that some of the guys left behind? i bet you they probably earn more selling stuff they take home than from actuall pay.

 

[VicAjax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wareagle69 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Excellent summary ericj. I would add that in my opinion the roots trace back to Congress and the Community Reinvestment Act that directed financial institutions to make mortgage loans to those who could not meet the traditional lending requirements then in place. The result was very predictable, it just took 20 years to manifest itself.

the CRA is not the root cause. if anything, it's a tiny piece of the puzzle... mostly, it's a scapegoat right now. most subprime loans are originated by banks which are not operating under CRA requirements.

the banks were not pressured by the government to make these ridiculous subprime loans, nor were they pressured by the government to repackage and sell the high-risk debt and pass it along to other investors.

yes, naive and uninformed homebuyers, as well as predatory lenders, must share some of the blame.

 

[rjp]

Other roots of the problem:

1. The cheap oil fiesta is over. Happy Motoring!
2. Too much of our industrial base has been outsourced. The only made-in-USA audio gizmo that I have is... a pair of Grado headphones!
3. Real wealth can't be generated by selling burgers to one another or running real-estate Ponzi schemes.

Never get your "latest, greatest, moneymaking investment" advice from the mass media. By the time the media is reporting about house-flipping or Beanie Babies, the people who started the fad have made their money and (if they're smart) cashed out and moved on to the next thing - or at least parked their money somewhere that's reasonably safe. The people following what the talking heads say might make some money if they act fast and are really, really lucky, but most will lose their shirts.

About eight miles southwest of me, there is an entire ghost subdivision. The streets, streetlights, and infrastructure are in place, but the only houses are the three models. A couple of years ago, it was productive farmland. Of course, following the typical urban sprawlville formula, the prime black topsoil has been scraped up into huge mounds to be sold off, leaving a thin layer on top of clay.

With the cheap oil party over, maybe the sprawl madness will stop. I hate seeing good farmland turned into yet more subdivisions with curly streets that go nowhere, cookie-cutter houses of vinyl and chipboard, overbearing homeowners' associations, and no real community. These have been spreading like cancer on what was once the south edge of the Chicago area.

I only recently heard of James Howard Kunstler, but he's been saying what I've been thinking for a long time. I don't think that the future will be quite as grim as he predicts, but the years ahead are not going to be smooth sailing.

 

[CodeToad]

>>>With the cheap oil party over

I wouldn't get my energy projections from mass media either.

The real root of a lot, if not 99%, of all our problems is fractional reserve banking.

The base of the pyramid scheme must continually expand which drives foreign policy (imperialism), immigration (brown people make more babies than white people), politics (national security is always economic stability), intelligence (fortunes are made by being ahead of everyone else) etc etc.

You can step aside and watch the world pass you by but you can't escape.

YouTube - David Gilmour - There's no way out of here

 

[rjp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CodeToad /img/forum/go_quote.gif I wouldn't get my energy projections from mass media either.

I don't need the media to tell me... all I have to do is look at the numbers on the gas pump. Since 2000, gas prices have more than tripled. Even though I drive a small, efficient car, what was a $12 fillup is now $38, and it was more like $43 just a short while ago. Let's just say I have no sympathy for the drivers of Hummers, Excursions, and similar behemoths - and I'm extremely glad/lucky I work within bicycle distance of home.

Those 3000-mile Caesar salads and Chinese-manufactured doodads have to be transported to their final destination. They aren't using sailboats or flying carpets to do this...

 

[japc]

145k euros for a two room apartment (only one apartment per floor, so it's really quiet) with about 190m2, awesome balcony to make barbecues, garage, big common garden and swimming pool. Sea view. Quiet and peaceful neighbourwood. 25 minutes by car to Lisbon.

Quality living

 

[krmathis]

I live in a quiet countryside area 20 minutes (by car) south west of Oslo, Norway. The area around here are very popular, which reflects in the housing prices. A regular size house (120-200m2) are rare to be found for less than $800,000 and once in a while sell for $4-5,000,000.

Renting an apartment, of lets say 50m2 can easily set you back $1000-1500 a month.

Its a great area to live in, since its quiet, close to the sea, ... but the cost of living is high. Oh well!

 

[japc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by krmathis /img/forum/go_quote.gif Renting an apartment, of lets say 50m2 can easily set you back $1000-1500 a month. Its a great area to live in, since its quiet, close to the sea, ... but the cost of living is high. Oh well!

Yeah, I have a friend couple that went working (him) and living there, well not there but near Kongsvinger, and they say that it's a lovely place but the prices (of everything really) are just getting too much to bear.

 

[nef]

I want my street to have more trees. Neighbours keep cutting down the trees that the council plants. That said, got nice neighbours in general.