[JohnFY]

I would like to play around with some EQing, just for fun mind you, but cannot even grasp the fundamentals of where EQ enters the chain!

My chain consists of Mano 320 streamer with a usb attached ssd, attached to a Holo Spring DAC via l2s, 2 x XLR's to an Auralic Taurus mk ii headphone amp.

Ebay UK is replete with dual 31 band rack mounted equalizers (other online marketplaces are available) for not much experimental money, but the questions I can't seem to find answers to are:

1. Is it even possible to use one of these in my headphone system?
2. If so, and there is little chance of me blowing up something more expensive in the chain, where exactly would it go?

I was thinking that maybe as these EQ thingys output via XLR this could go after the DAC and before the Amp, or have I still not grasped the fundamentals?

Sorry to be so obtuse, but hours and hours of searching for the answers have me utterly confused.

Any help, suggestions or ridicule most welcome.

By-the-way, as mentioned in the title, my system is not attached, or near, to my PC, hence the idea of a hardware EQ. Although the Mano streamer is wired to my router (which in turn is connected to my PC I suppose) the only control I have over the Mano is via a phone app called Squeeze Orange, or such like, which does not have an equalizer.

As I'm sure you will have gleaned from this post I ain't no technology guru! Go easy on me! If you do reply, please use little words, devoid of technical jargon, and assume you are talking to a child, although I'm sure a child knows way more that this 54 year old.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can be bothered.

 

[Funk-O-Meter]

Any EQ you buy would need to go between the DAC and the amp. Pay attention to connector types and make sure they're compatable. Also, be aware that graphic EQ's can be very noisy things since they're introducing up to 31 new op-amp based filters into your signal chain per channel. For that reason, I recommend going for a high-end EQ from the likes of Klark Technik or Ashley. A cheaper EQ would likely introduce annoying hiss into your otherwise clean signal chain and drive you mad. If you're an IEM guy this might be particularly bad.

 

[PaganDL]

@JohnFY,

@Funk-O-Meter has it right, anywhere along the audio chain between DAC & amp, hardware based EQ will work, though if also has a head out, you can have it after the amp & connect it directly to your headphones, the only caveat to trying this out is budget.
I suggest not bothering with eBay UK unless you're absolutely sure what you're looking for & it is easily returnable.
For that reason, Pro Audio Shops will generally give you good to better advice as well as good deals on potentially affordable gear.
However, saying that, be prepared to spend above £500+ (500 series modules can even more as you need the compatible mount) to get something even remotely useful, aside from Klark Technik, Drawmer, Rupert Neve & Heritage Audio all make great gear which will add great effects to your audio chain.

Feel free to ask more if you need.

Hope you have a great day !

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I prefer parametric EQ to graphic. That is also something to consider. Some of the pro gear @PaganDL alluded to can be pretty good. You might consider dbX. I have an old SAE parametric eq box somewhere...it was killer.

 

[JohnFY]

@Funk-O-Meter and @PaganDL , Thank you both for giving up your time to answer my questions. It's very much appreciated, gentlemen.

So, the upshot is that I can indeed play with an EQ in my system (woohoo!), but not on an ebay special. Fair enough. Whilst I would like to spend as little as possible, as this is merely an experiment, it would seem utterly pointless to do so in a sub-par manner, that would be just wasting money. I get it.

Do you think that there is something specific I should look for in an EQ regarding noise from the op-amps in the specifications or could I forgo the effort and just get one from the Companies you suggested? For example, searching the UK from the Companies you both mentioned, I could get a Klark Teknik DN 370 2x30 Band EQ for £530.00 excluding a mount/case or such like. Would this suffice? There is a used Klark Technik DN-360 on that auction site for £139.00 in a 'used but perfectly functioning condition' without the mount/case thing, but no mention of returns, or even a Klark Teknik Square One Graphic 3U Dual 30-Band Equaliser SQ1G and a flight case for £200.00.

Oh, by the way Funk-O-Meter, I will only be using headphone not iems. Audeze Lcd 2's and 4's to be precise. My iem days are well and truly over.

Here's the thing PaganDL, I have spoken with four localish HiFi outfits, and one that is so 'high' they have a set of speakers for sale at £202,000.00, yes, £202,000.00! but all scratched their heads regarding EQ. So, not sure I'm going to get anything out of them. I need you guys to step up to the plate please and push me in the right direction.

Please do not feel obliged by that last statement, you've been more than helpful as it is already. But then again you were both foolish enough to enter the bear pit of ignorance, that was my post, with your superior knowledge and experience, you may now just have some moral responsibility to complete this ignoramus' education!

Thanks again guys for all your help.

 

[JohnFY]

@gimmeheadroom Funnily enough, some of the Companies PaganDL mentioned seem only to have parametric EQ's when I looked at their sites. To be honest I don't understand EQ as it is, but I do recall from my youth seeing EQ's with the numerous sliders and understanding the sliders corresponding with specific frequencies, whereas, just looking at the parametric EQ's with only knobs and dials left me scratching my head.

Maybe I should try and explain what it is I'm trying to do. I've read so much from members regarding EQing their headphones (via a computer it would seem) and suggesting it has such an effect as to effectively give them a new headphone. Now, I am more than happy with my current setup as to not want to go chasing anything more in the way of crazy priced hardware just for some slight improvement here or there, but having a play with EQ could be fun, enlightening or even educational. It would be interesting to copy some of their EQ settings but with hardware rather than software (which seems way more hassle to me than trying this method). I know little about either, but I'm hoping hardware separates are less technically taxing to someone as ignorant as I.

This a new area for me, so, baby steps first. Let me play with the slider things first and, who knows, I might just get into it and move on to the big boy's parametric EQ.

Thank you for your suggestions and help. I shall chase you for your knowledge should I make it to the big league!

 

[gimmeheadroom]

@gimmeheadroom Funnily enough, some of the Companies PaganDL mentioned seem only to have parametric EQ's when I looked at their sites. To be honest I don't understand EQ as it is, but I do recall from my youth seeing EQ's with the numerous sliders and understanding the sliders corresponding with specific frequencies, whereas, just looking at the parametric EQ's with only knobs and dials left me scratching my head.

Maybe I should try and explain what it is I'm trying to do. I've read so much from members regarding EQing their headphones (via a computer it would seem) and suggesting it has such an effect as to effectively give them a new headphone. Now, I am more than happy with my current setup as to not want to go chasing anything more in the way of crazy priced hardware just for some slight improvement here or there, but having a play with EQ could be fun, enlightening or even educational. It would be interesting to copy some of their EQ settings but with hardware rather than software (which seems way more hassle to me than trying this method). I know little about either, but I'm hoping hardware separates are less technically taxing to someone as ignorant as I.

This a new area for me, so, baby steps first. Let me play with the slider things first and, who knows, I might just get into it and move on to the big boy's parametric EQ.

Thank you for your suggestions and help. I shall chase you for your knowledge should I make it to the big league!

Yeah in the 1970s graphic EQ became very popular in midfi. It's very easy to use because if you have a lot of bands you just slide up and down to give you the curve you want and the switches themselves show you the curve. If you want a flat response and your headphone has high and low points, you just reverse the curve on the EQ to be the opposite of where the problems are. Graphic EQ got a bad name because of the kind of meh quality and insertion loss of a lot of lowgrade gear but also because many people abused it for bass boost. Things sounded like crap.

Parametric EQ is a specialized tool. It is more about filtering. You have some number of bands with a center frequency and you can change the area around that band to be wider or narrower. You can make sharp filters to cut off above or below certain frequencies. The "problem" with that is there is no visual cue to what you are doing. So you have to have a basic understanding of what an audio signal looks like on a scope. It is really simple but if you never did it before it can seem complicated. It's not, you just have to know where in the audio spectrum various instruments are, where the human voice is etc. And nothing has to be pinpoint accurate although if you have a good parametric EQ you can pinpoint things.

DSP (digital signal processing, as opposed to passive filtering) parametric EQ has also been used by amateur radio (ham radio) for a long time. Imagine you have a bunch of guys sending morse code. What you hear without any filtering is tons of conversations with tones at different frequencies. You can create a narrow passband with parametric EQ that is centered on the conversation you want, then cut off everything above and below. In hifi or sound reinforcement (concert audio etc.) parametric EQ is a good tool for dealing with specific sonic problems. The RME DAC has parametric EQ but it has a graphical display which to me is kind of the best of both worlds. It has very useful settings but you can see the actual filtering curve.

My new Massdrop Fostex have a definite V curve. The midrange where vocals are is noticeably lower in volume than the bass and treble. To me this is annoying. I want a flat curve. So using EQ I boost the midrange frequencies to where they sound at the right level, and I cut some of the treble to where it sounds correct. You can probably get most headphones to sound close to what you want using a system like this. For speakers it's the same concept. You have to have an idea what your speaker and amp response curves look like and then use EQ to flatten them. You don't have to go flat, but that is the most "correct" approach. If you like more or less bass, treble, etc. you can do it. Parametric EQ is more capable at the expense of some complexity. To be honest, I use DSP EQ in radio all the time. For speakers, I'm running an integrated amp with no tone controls and I'm perfectly happy with it. For headphones you may or may not want it.

To start out with, see if you can find frequency response graphs for your gear.

 

[PaganDL]

Hi @JohnFY,

As said, depends what you're looking for...
There are many types of EQ or Equalisation...
PEQ is just one type in a long line which is the most common & in different flavours, especially given its linear nature of sorts, it is perhaps the most versatile.
When most, especially in the pro side, look at hardware EQ, Compressors, Distressors, Limiters & Noise Gates are more often than not, looked at first before any dedicated gear actually called EQ.
As the primary purpose, among many others, for using EQ, is to alter sound or adjust inconsistencies in sound.

For example, Heritage Audio has the Successor, which by all accounts is a solid hardware Compressor, what's known as a Master Buss which in general terms means the primary stage but not limited to for altering sound.
Rupert Neve Designs has similar but actually has gear which serves more specific tasks, eg, 5045 Primary Source Enchancer, which mainly handles Effects Processing but can act like a Distressor/Compressor though it is more a Noise Gate or the more famous, well known by the same brand in Pro Audio Circles is the Shelford Channel which is esentially what's known as an outboard preamp but with built in EQ, Compressor function among many others...

Those rack/case thing is in fact called a rack module or outboard, as mentioned in my initial post, the most common version being the 500 Series though these need the outboards/rack module to work as they are essentially, in general terms, a plug & play card for altering sound, etc...
This in most situations is definitely more than you need or can cope with for now.

As said, unless you know what you're looking for & want to do, avoid getting any used gear unless perhaps demo if it's in good condition though I would as a general rule, caution against that as well.

As stated in my previous post, look for Pro Audio shops, not HiFi, as most hifi stores will have no idea what you need, let alone what you're talking about as you found out.

Honestly, @JohnFY, is all you're trying to do is follow the herd majority in just using EQ for the sake of EQ as many think this will fix all issues with sound, especially with head gear, this is largely incorrect as more often than not, it is simply easier to change the head gear, as well as the preceeding amp &/or amps involved, as well as even the DAC though realistically source quality & recording quality matters a lot more for potentially good sound.
In summary, EQing something, especially from a software standpoint, honestly does jack all to very little for potentially fixing any possible issues with headgear sound.

There is also a common misconception among the community & there are many who will defend this to the death, so to speak, as with my previous statement, it is simply a matter of changing headphone, especially if it's top tier or even mid tier to get a different sound, or said headgear involved is the one which solely matters, this is almost severely incorrect.
As there is only so far you can tweak that sound with any EQ & in most cases, it is far easier & subjectively better just to change the gear.
For example, head amps tend to have different flavours in sound more than people realise or can hear, as it tends to be very subtle not to mention, in some cases, it is a matter of feeling or emotion.
As a further example, just look at how many head amps I have compared to head gear overall as I tend to use my head amps more & switch between 3, at the most four head gear, as well as obvious source gear, though my main DAC for at home listening is not listed, it is a pro grade DAC which personally & subjectively, to me at any rate, outperforms headfi & hifi DACs for various reasons, the primary two reasons being Sound Quality & Functionality.

So if you still want to play with Hardware EQ, the Drawmer 1974 or 1976 would be a good place to start.

Feel free to ask more when you need.

Hope this makes more sense.

Hope you have a great day !

 

[ponyhead]

Would the PEQ functionality of a miniDSP 2x4 / Wondom / FreeDSP be sufficient?