[swiego]

Actually, I've known a number of Nakamichi owners (high-end owners - CR-7, ZXL series) who used the KA3ES for day-to-day recording duties to the Sony's incredibly stable transport and strong recording abilities. I guess the claim is that Nakamichi records with a fair amount of "color" that gives it its unique, musical sound. The Sony I think is more faithful, hence it does seem more mechanical and boring, but you do get so much more flexibility.

I haven't cracked open the DR1 to see what the condition is inside, but it was cheap ($100) and looks semi-mint. The head looks shiny and new, and it RW and FF strong.

 

[Nak Man]

If you a/b source/tape with good nak recorder, you'll be surprised at how much 'color' there is on tape position ... almost none.

The bad part is that nak refused to join the IEC standard so tapes recorded on them may sound a bit off on other decks. Major reason: nak has a killer pb head that can easily give flat rec/pb response at lower distortion level. That same pb head has been installed since gen 2 started (48x).

Btw you won't find rew/ff problem on DR1 as on BX series, that infamous rubber idler has been replaced by gear.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nak Man Btw you won't find rew/ff problem on DR1 as on BX series, that infamous rubber idler has been replaced by gear.

I did "idler" surgery on my CR7 recently which was a bit of a daunting task but went off without a hitch. nakamichi.us sell replacement idlers for 10USD with full instructions on how to install them on their site so you can resurrect an ailing nak with some fine pliers and a steady hand.
This makes any 2nd hand CR, BX, and RX series deck with telltale transport problems a bit of a potential bargain...

 

[Nak Man]

Some of earlier CR5/7 came with rubber idler, the rest, including later CR5/7 came with gear drive installed. Gear drive upgrade cost about $75, if still available, making lower end ebay CR1/2 a bargain to be cannibalized for your beloved CR7.

I agree that the rubber problem made some "as-is" 3 head cr and bx a good bargain, especially BX300. Replacing RX202's idler takes more than steady hand though.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nak Man Some of earlier CR5/7 came with rubber idler, the rest, including later CR5/7 came with gear drive installed. Gear drive upgrade cost about $75, if still available, making lower end ebay CR1/2 a bargain to be cannibalized for your beloved CR7.

I did consider this but in the UK the upgrade costs 100UKP plus so I thought I'd give the tyre replacement a go and I am very pleased with the results. My CR7 is an 86 model and although the idler wasn't completely worn it was starting to go. It would sometimes stop unaccountably on some tapes or refuse to rewind past a certain point. Do you think it's a worthwhile upgrade? I will probably wait till I send it for a full service.
I have seen idler tyre replacements for earlier models on the web including the 581 which I have but as far as I could tell inside it's gear driven? any ideas on that. My 581 also has a faulty eject mechanism, do you know if this is an easy repair? a broken spring or something. This cassette door issue seems common on decks from the early 80's as I have also seen it on LX models. I would say the 581 seems more robust than the CR7 and a friends 600 is of a higher build quality still, so the tendency towards cheapening of parts was obviously an industry wide phenomena which effected Nakamichi as much as every other Japanese manufacturer.
If you want a deck for a short while just to "digitize" with then I can see the DR1 and Cassette Deck 1 are a good bet as they are less interesting to collectors after obtaining the ultimate quality from a cassette, and thus cheaper. If you are going to sell it shortly anyway then this seems a good option.
If however you are after the last deck which you will ever buy, which you could still use in 20 years and beyond to replay your archival cassettes then this is another matter. The earlier to mid period Naks we mentioned along with the highend European makes (Studer / Revox / Tandberg) are made to such high standards that they will go on indefinitely.
We know that tape can last 50 years if stored well. So this begs the question why throw away a perfectly good recording after archiving to a digitally inferior 44.1 16bit which is certainly not guaranteed to last as long. Funnily enough I saw a memorex add in an old magazine the other day stating that their tape formulations would last 100years!

 

[Nak Man]

Quote:

Originally Posted by memepool Do you think it's a worthwhile upgrade? I will probably wait till I send it for a full service.

If you can get cheap CR1/2 - which can be as low as $10-25 on ebay - then you can ask your techie to transplant the gear wheel into CR7. I've done this a number of times myself, but CR7's innards is certainly not for the weak at heart. I understand labor cost is very high esp in the UK, and if total cost gets closer to UKP100 then perhaps it's better to get 'official' upgrade + maybe some guarantee along the way. Frankly speaking I don't think the upgrade is worth more than USD 50. I'd go the $5 rubber replacement route every 2-3 yrs, especially since there could still be some problems on other area of deck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by memepool I have seen idler tyre replacements for earlier models on the web including the 581 which I have but as far as I could tell inside it's gear driven? any ideas on that. My 581 also has a faulty eject mechanism, do you know if this is an easy repair? a broken spring or something. This cassette door issue seems common on decks from the early 80's as I have also seen it on LX models.

Different idler problem on 581 / true nak mechanism, is that they become brittle after the years. Much more robust idler but this hardened rubber problem is unavoidable. If ff/rew become slow etc then rubber is getting hard and lose grip on cass reel. Btw this part is much harder to find, and harder to replace since it's conveniently located between two alum plates.

Iirc 581's eject button is connected to a steel wire which consequently push the eject lever on mecha block. Usually the plastic that hold this wire got broken and can be easily remedied using some super glue (+ cotton ball if you miss the broken plastic part, but this would be a permanent fix). You'd need to work from 'behind' and would be easier if the whole mecha block is off the deck. LX is less prone as eject button and lever are on same side.

 

[swiego]

I sprung for the E-Mu 1212m. It seems to have both recording and playback capabilities that I'm not going to grow out of. It is not the best game playing card, but I do not need a great gameplaying card. Also, it is not an external device, true. However I have done a lot of research & asking around over the last few months, and there does not seem to be much compelling evidence that external devices are worse in the real world. Sure, there seem to be millions of people saying that external is better because of less EM interference, but I couldn't find an iota of evidence that suggested that a well-designed internal card couldn't keep up. Moreover, the price differential between the 1212m and the equivalent in an external box seems astronomical; from what I can tell, if you want to get the internal componenty of the 1212m in an external breakout box, you start looking at 4- and 8-channel devices that begin around double the price.

I'm going to draw a line in the sand and suggest that for under $200, the 1212m might be the best analog/digital I/O sound card, internal or external, period!

So what's done is done.

I still need to get some interconnects. I'd like to keep these pretty reasonable, price-wise!

I'm also fairly certain that I'm going to abandon the Pioneer FLEX experiment. My reasoning is that its DSP capabilities already exist in software, and my assumption is that they will continue to grow in power and sophistication in the coming years. I'd rather get a high-fidelity capture, then worry about cleanup after the fact.

I'm reasonably certain that I'm going to stick to the DR-1 as a playback device, unless I can get a Dragon for cheap

 

[memepool]

Maybe the external Firewire / USB boxes are cheaper in the rest of the world because of the weak dollar? Over in Europe we can get the M-Audio audiophile firewire box for 120 UKP / 170 Euro thats why I was recommending it as the entry-level. The EMU you have is more expensive than this here.
The easiest way to test it's suitability is to connect all your stuff together and see if there is any audible computer noise when you don't have any music playing by just openning other programmes on you PC and listening for the sound of the Harddrives comming through the speakers.
Computer Hardrives and Fans are very noisy so even with a PC working just as a sequencer in a Midi set-up with no direct audio connections it is still possible you will get RF interence and electrical noise over your monitors.
It is the cumulative effect of connecting your HiFi and Computer equipment together rather than any one piece of kit in it's own right.
For this reason things like power supply / mains filters and balanced cabling are used in studios.
You can also take steps to damp your computer, companies like http://www.quietpc.com (UK) sell a range of solutions for making computers quieter inside and out.

 

[swiego]

"Sorry about your wallet," they said.

Well, local recon identified the presence of a desirable item in my neighborhood. Diplomatic contacts were established with its owner, and a deal was arranged. The goods will exchange hands this weekend.

And, I'll own a mint, gorgeous, elegant... Nakamichi Dragon.

Really, the deck I'd always wanted, because who wouldn't want automatic azimuth alignment? It wasn't cheap, but it was well below recent eBay prices, and the deck is absolutely mint. I think it's a Cinderella story. Single owner, elderly. Not a scratch. Very late model unit. (1992.) Used sparingly, yet never stored. Always had its own shelf on the equipment rack. Heads in perfect condition. All buttons and lights work. Doesn't just come with the box, manual and remote; even comes with the cleaning cloth!

In fact the only thing it doesn't have is a demagger.

I made off like a bandit, while the former owner parlays newfound cash into a SACD player. We both win.

---

At the time I joined this forum, I'd had my eyes on a HD600 for a while and thought I should read up a bit more. So, I arrived, and learned about the HD650s, and got them. And I listened to them. And they were good. But the forum said that the Zu Mobius cable lifted veils, so I ordered it and it was good too. But a 300 ohm headphone requires juice that my receiver could not provide, so the Benchmark DAC1 was acquired. And this combination was good, and I rejoiced, but my newfound appreciation for music led to me gaze longingly at my old and fading cassette tape collection. And so came the Sony KA3ES, and this inspired memories of a past love, and so came the Walkman WM-D6C. But whoa, Nakamichi was great, Nakamichi was good, so the DR-1 was found... only to be kicked out onto the street by a Dragon. But the tapes still fade, the Emu 1212m was purchased. And as audio is digitized, so too must be the video (8mm and VHS) and so arrived the JVC HRS-9911U, Sony SLV-R1000, Sony EV-S7000 and Canopus ADVC-100 and the appropriate interconnects. But the electricity is not but noisy, and the equipment rack is not but crowded, and the DAC1 is not but sterile, and so it was written and so it was done: I desire a PS Audio power plant, new furniture and a Meridian 588 or G08.

Well, better to get through this phase while I'm still pretty young.

---

So, the Dragon should be here shortly and with luck the belts and idler are in good shape and it won't need a trip to ESL for a while. With the 1212m due to arrive tomorrow, I think I have acquired the best capture platform I could hope for. Now I have to turn to software. Also, I just realized that in *theory* I can send 24/192 stereo via coax digital, bit-perfect, to the DAC1 for playback on the HD650s. I should hear all the tape hiss in exquisite detail!!!

 

[Nak Man]

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiego and with luck the belts and idler are in good shape and it won't need a trip to ESL for a while.

Don't worry, there's no drive belt to be found inside your dragon. Both capstans are driven independently by computer controlled DD to give exact speed differences to maintain tape tension in both direction.

Idler rubber should still be fresh, it's like what, only 13 yrs. The only 'light' problem I can think of is - if it's rarely used then reverse play may be a bit bitchy, and very simple fix to that. In any case, please PM me if you have any Qs, hopefully I may be able to give some clues.

Next stop is to find xtra rare dragon turntable.

 

[memepool]

Wow. The Dragon was always THE cassette deck to have. I am jealous. Is the playback really that much better than the CR-7. I thought manual playback azimuth would be better than auto? I especially like the fact it's remote controlled on the CR7.

The Dragon turntable sounds very interesting as well. it has some advanced pitch stabilising featues which apparently work really well. I found a review in an old HiFi Choice magazine which was pretty impressed with it. It cost 900UKP in 1984! when the LP12 was 400.

 

[swiego]

I'll leave the Dragon turntable to you guys. Let me know how that goes

If you search completed items on eBay, by the way, you can find a Dragon CD player that sold for some ridiculous price. I'd never even seen one before. That was interesting.

I'll post some pics once it's in my hands....

 

[19lexicon78]

nice thread to read!!


first of all, i don't know anything about good decks. i've never heard them..

but for 2 years now i've been looking for good tape decks. i've been searching the internet 1000x. when i started to search for a good tape-deck, according to some sites the dragon was it. now, 2 years older

, i've red that many tape-freaks don't like nakamichi alot. those decks break easily and are colored. but also the tapes recorded on a nakamichi, you can only play on a nakamichi. when playing on another deck or walkman, the sound of it isn't "that" perfect.

to be very short; when reading those tape-sites, i came to the conclusion that many tape-freaks ranked the tandberg pro-series number one.

my question to you guys; do you have heard a tandberg 3014A or 910 and prefer those above all the others?

so perhaps one day, i will buy a tandberg.

 

[swiego]

The impression I get is that the upper end of the tape deck market consists of a collection of equals, each with their strengths and weaknesses. Kind of like asking who makes the best headphone, Sennheiser, Sony, Grado, Stax? Well, they all have their "representatives" and at the upper echelons, they all have a house sound.

Nakamichi seems to excel at engineering sophistication and playback capability. Tandberg by all accounts is a king of build quality. Sony basically owned the portable market. Pioneer basically owned the "digital enhancement" market, plus the CT-Fxxx series from the late 70s and early 80s. Revox has its representatives as well but I'm not clear what the "reputation" of the 215 is. Yamaha (1200U) and Teac (8030S) both had their flagship statement decks as well. And lastly I don't want to understate Marantz, who seemed to be head-to-head with Sony in the pro portable market, and head-to-head with Nakamichi in the high-tech audiophile deck market.

I'm not sure I'd call any of these decks "better" than the rest although they sure have their strengths and weaknesses. The right deck probably depends on usage. The Dragon appeals to me because I want playback - which is the subject of this discussion. There may be (and probably are) better choices when it comes to recording. There may be (and probably are) better choices when it comes to looks, or mechanical simplicity.

 

[19lexicon78]

ok..

i think, i prefer audio-gear with the most natural sound. and reading pro-gear sites. pro-gear gives less colored sound. so, i'll be going for a tandberg. perhaps a studer will be more natural.

i hope some of you have heard all those tape-decks.