[bigshot]

Once you get everything calibrated the way you want, you can spend all your time listening to music.

P.S. If you are willing to EQ, then you should be able to make any decent set of headphones sound the way you want, as long as they can play a full range of frequencies loud without distorting.

 

[playmusic]

Once you get everything calibrated the way you want, you can spend all your time listening to music.

I am looking forward to that

P.S. If you are willing to EQ ...

Yes, I am willing to eq.
There are so many posts and headphone reviews which sthat that headphone X is excellent except a small peak around frequency y or it is lacking a bit of middle bass etc.
Besides, it is my understanding that these nuances depend also on the physiology of the listener.
It would be too much effort for me to look for a headphone which comes close to perfection out of the box.

... then you should be able to make any decent set of headphones sound the way you want, as long as they can play a full range of frequencies loud without distorting.

I am close to believing this.
My only reservation at the moment would be the Stax SR-009s which sounded inherently different to dynamic or planar magnetic headphones.

Ideally, I would have a Sennheiser HD 800S and a Stax SR-009s and matching amplifiers here at home for a test.
Oratory1990 results are available in AutoEQ for both, so I could emulate the Stax on the Sennheiser and compare it to the original Stax.
If they sound identical then I would get the Sennheiser to save money and avoid the electrostats hassle.

Besides, if I ever go down the Stax route then I will get the cheapest amplifier that sounds in a DBT adequate to me.

 

[bigshot]

Don't Stax require some kind of non-standard impedance? I thought that was one of the brands that required you to buy their amp for their cans. (I'd never even consider buying anything like that myself.)

It's going to be impossible to get a blind comparison using headphones. You can tell which is which by the feel. I think it would be better just to listen to each and choose the one that sounds good, is the most practical, and the cheapest. Sound isn't the only consideration. Microscopically small improvements in sound aren't worth it if it comes with irritating impracticality.

The reason I love my cans so much is for the sound naturally, but also because they are able to be plugged into anything without an amplifier. I can use them with my phone, with my VR headset, with my computer... they sound just as great with all of those. That counts.

 

[playmusic]

Stax cans require special amps outputting up to 400 V.
According to Stax owners, the "best" amps need to have valves.
There are also third-party amps, but they tend to cost even more than Stax amps.
For the "very best" amps you need to find experts who build an amp specifically for you.
So, this is quite in the opposite direction of practicality.

I enjoy having my IEMs because of their practicality.

So, Stax will only be a consideration for me if they prove to be significantly better than other options - microscopic improvement would not be enough.

Concerning blind test, I meant to referr to the selection of an amp for Stax, not the headphone itself.

 

[bigshot]

That would be a complete no go for me. I don’t see the point of chasing will o the wisp improvements based on anecdotal reports from audiophiles. The standard of veracity among that group isn’t high enough. To put it nicely, I think you are listening to the wrong people.

I think it would be better to define your goals, make a list of priorities, and then find the cans that work for you. There are too many important variables that matter just as much if not more than if one model sounds slightly different than another. It’s easy to EQ headphones in a home rig. I would just get good solid, comfortable, practical cans and fine tune if you must.

I don’t see a need to EQ my headphones at all. They sound great and they don’t annoy me with impractical hoop jumping. Good stuff is out there. Just look for what is best for you, not some armchair duffer writing on an audiophool website.

 

[FYFL]

Stax and Sennheiser are way apart as far as sound signature goes. I’m not even sure how one can be mistaken for the other???
Regardless, I’ve recently gone through this process and it’s a very personal experience. I’m not sure what exactly is your criteria for ultimate headphone and things you look for in your next headphones? I think an important part of your audition should be a comprehensive break down of check boxes that are important to you. From comfort, ergonomics, budget to technicality and overall musical enjoyment. You need to know what kind of sound signature you will be most satisfied with. Also don’t underestimate synergy part. Maybe not Stax as they come with selection of their own amps but for conventional headphones, synergy between them and an amp is crucial IMHO.
The simplest indicator of headphones that might be right for you: longer they stay on your head, more likely those are the ones for you. If headphones have the ability to submerge you in musical performance and forget about everything else, that might be a good sign.

 

[bigshot]

If a set of cans can reproduce a full spectrum of frequencies loud, you should be able to EQ them to sound like any sound signature you want. The only limitation is sub bass, because a lot of otherwise good cans struggle with that.

 

[fiiom11pro]

trust your ears.

 

[KeithPhantom]

Or just get a pair that you love, either get used to it or EQ it to your liking. I don't see the reason to buy multiple headphones unless is a practical one anymore (commuting, home listening, portability...).

 

[playmusic]

Here is my question to you:
https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq states:
"Reference Audio Analyzer have three different measurement systems none of which seem to represent human hearing particularly well."
When two headphones are measured with a single inadequate measurement system:
Can the emulation of one headphone by the eq'ed other headphone still be accurate?

In the following analogy, this would work:
Consider a ruler which is straight, but the spacing between the cm-marks is uneven.
Measuring with this ruler would be precise, but with very low accuracy.
Still, the ruler would be adequate to transfer measurements from one object to another object because it preserves distances.

In the meantime I have answered my own question from above.
The answer is: No.

First, I did not think carefully when I formulated my question.
The measurement system measures the frequency response and then AutoEq computed the difference to the target.
It is not that the difference between the FR and the target is measured.
So, my ruler analogy does not apply at all.

Second, I made a quick test and emulated a Stax SR-009s on a Sennheiser HD 800S in Peace (i.e. onlv virtually) based on i) Oratory1990 data and ii) Crinacle data.
Those are the two best available measurements according to Jakkoo.
The two emulation corrections differ significantly in the region 1 kHz - 20 kHz (partly more than 10 dB).

What does this imply for me?

1. When I will apply a emulation correction to a headphone (e.g. to a HD 800S), I will not expect that it immediately sounds like the other headphone.
   It is an approximation and I would have to fine tune by my hearing.
2. I would try both Oratory1990 data and Crinacle data as a starting point.

 

[castleofargh]

Second, I made a quick test and emulated a Stax SR-009s on a Sennheiser HD 800S in Peace (i.e. onlv virtually) based on i) Oratory1990 data and ii) Crinacle data.
Those are the two best available measurements according to Jakkoo.
The two emulation corrections differ significantly in the region 1 kHz - 20 kHz (partly more than 10 dB).

Be careful about the conclusions you draw from this. As I said before, I wouldn't expect the 2 headphones to sound exactly the same, or provide the same subjective experience even if the frequency response was identical. transducers are still the weak link in a proper playback system, so audible differences are just objectively more likely to come out of them.

But what you have tried is not giving you 2 headphones with identical FR!!!!!!
- First is the matter of your headphones probably not measuring exactly like the one measured.
- Then there is the fact that they were not measured at your ears. So even if the measurement was accurate on whatever measurement rig, the resulting variations would be correct only for that rig, not for when the headphones are on your head. Think about your very own outer ears, and also about the way you happen to place the headphones on your head. they both can affect the resulting FR.
- There is a small but real possibility that some EQ wouldn't impact the headphone by the amount you expect because of acoustic or mechanical issues. by using 2 great headphones you certainly lower the risks, but I still wouldn't completely dismiss some potential for audible consequences.
- and last, the EQ used. different filters will do different things, some of which could be audible sometimes.

Most likely your experience includes a tiny bit of all of the above and you're not hearing the same frequency response on both headphones. Such an experience is just not conclusive for what you were curious about.

 

[bigshot]

You're ball parking it. That's fine, nothing wrong with that. Just realize you're ball parking it. Every set of cans is a little different than every other one, even ones of the same make and model. There is slack in manufacturing tolerances. If you had the specific set of target cans in hand and could EQ while you're switching back and forth, you could get very close... close enough that it wouldn't make any difference for everyday listening. Doing it long distance is just getting you in the neighborhood.

But the question is this... Is Stax *better* than Sennheiser? Which one is closer to *your* target response. Don't assume that more expensive and more of a PITA is better. That will lead you down rabbit holes that get you no closer to reaching your goal and you'll never be free to listen to music. Just define what a great system means to YOU and shoot for that.

Apply science to reach YOUR goal. Don't force yourself to adhere to some arbitrary standard that doesn't apply to you.

 

[playmusic]

As I said before, I wouldn't expect the 2 headphones to sound exactly the same, or provide the same subjective experience even if the frequency response was identical. transducers are still the weak link in a proper playback system, so audible differences are just objectively more likely to come out of them.

Agreed.

But what you have tried is not giving you 2 headphones with identical FR!!!!!!

Also agreed.

and you're not hearing the same frequency response on both headphones

Actually, I have not heard anything. I only looked at the correction curve to emulate a Stax SR-009s on a Sennheiser HD 800s for i) Oratory1990 data and ii) Crinacle data.

The point I tried to make was that (independently of my ear topology) already these two curves derived from Oratory1990 and Crinacle data differ vastly above 1 kHz.
Both were considered by Jaakko as the best sources in AutoEq. The first correction curves is derived from Oratory measurements. The second diagram is based on Crinacle's measurements.

The deviation shows that it is unlikely that one of the curves will produce matching FR.
Adding ear topology will add even more deviation, probably.

My initial aim was to figure out in a setup as close to a DBT as possible whether the Stax SR-009s sounds really better than other headphones.
Or whether I only find the FR more pleasing.
The plan was to eq it to the same FR as another headphone via data from AutoEQ to make the comparison as neutral as possible.
But this does not look feasible. An elaborate setup would be needed to take among others my ear topology into account.

The only option would be to follow bigshot's suggestion to eq it according to my hearing and switching back and forth.
But it would be tedious to go through the frequency range and match FR.
Instead, I might be better off to adjust each headphone on its own a bit, e.g. add a bit of bass to the Stax and then choose the one I like best.

And indeed, I agree with bigshot that the practicality is something to consider.