[Old Pa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oski /img/forum/go_quote.gif For me personally I think of my current mortgage as an asset, since I locked in a 30-year fixed for 5.0% back in mid-2003. Right now I can put my money in bank CDs and make more than 5.0%, so it makes more sense to have the cash and not pay off the debt.

Obviously a legitimate financial plan, assuming you have provisions in place to take care of your debt if something happens to you. It's just another demonstration of the legitimacy of debt within sound financial planning.
Quote:

i'm debt free. and i still haven't seen 5 years worth of child support, so i guess i'm pretty well off

Sorry to hear that. Child support only goes part way to taking care of the needs of a child and to do without it for five or more years is a beast of a hardship. Although I've heard a number of people compare doing without child support to still be superior to dealing with having the ex around.

 

[guzziguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Pa /img/forum/go_quote.gif You can put down anything you want to, but as long as you have a large mortgage, even if you could pay it off completely from other assets, then you have debt. As stated before, this is not about net worth.

Can you please explain what the point of the poll is? What's interesting about measuring debt without context?

 

[goldenratiophi]

No debt here, but no money either

 

[granodemostasa]

Damn... I'm worth practically nothing, i make nothing, and I got student loans to pay off after I graduate.

(woo... i gotta conserve posts... this was rather wasted, wasn't it).

 

[spraggih]

Just finished paying off my last debt - except my home. Credit cards are not good for all people - I often could not recall what I purchased when paying monthly payments.

 

[Old Pa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by guzziguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Can you please explain what the point of the poll is? What's interesting about measuring debt without context?

ROTFLMAO!! You gotta stop! After all the polls around here about whether you floss or which fish food you prefer you can't see the purpose of one on debt?!?! You're killin' me!

Let me try to explain. Debt, within most cultures, is its own context. Owing something you ostensibly do not have to someone else strikes at the core of human existence. If you owe, you do not have. If you owe, something of your purpose must go to repayment and not to something else. Rationalization about "net worth" and "investments" come to little before an obligation to repay. So are there good reasons to borrow? Sure. Education, housing, medical and other essentials. The list is short. So where don't you see the context in debt?

 

[spraggih]

I like the poll on how do you like your Ramen noodles.

 

[Jamey Warren]

I'm owned. I bought a house about a year ago and since it is 30 miles away from my work I also needed reliable transportation. To me, the house is worth every cent I spend every month. It puts a big smile on my face to come home every day. The car I could do without. I can feel the value blowing out the tail pipe as I drive down the highway.

 

[guzziguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Pa /img/forum/go_quote.gif ROTFLMAO!! You gotta stop! After all the polls around here about whether you floss or which fish food you prefer you can't see the purpose of one on debt?!?! You're killin' me! Let me try to explain. Debt, within most cultures, is its own context. Owing something you ostensibly do not have to someone else strikes at the core of human existence. If you owe, you do not have. If you owe, something of your purpose must go to repayment and not to something else. Rationalization about "net worth" and "investments" come to little before an obligation to repay. So are there good reasons to borrow? Sure. Education, housing, medical and other essentials. The list is short. So where don't you see the context in debt?

I don't waste my time with inane polls such as the ones you mentioned. This one seemed to have some promise.

I disagree with many of your statements above. Debt without context means has little meaning. You didn't ask what the debt for, you just asked for a dollar figure. You poll doesn't cover any of the possible contexts you mentioned above.

At least it wasn't a total waste. I managed to make you laugh.

 

[zachary80]

Quote:

Originally Posted by snejk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Back on topic. I don't see the problem with debt. It's just a way to match the needs in your life with the money (capital) needed, on a more extended time scale. When you're 20 to 30 there is no way to match your income and saved capital with the spending you need to be able to have a decent life (house, car etc). Presuming you don't have rich parents... As long as you don't overstretch...

I was going to reply about how my 28 year old brother began working when he was legally able, paid his own way through college, is currently renting a reasonable house in Colorado, and has a paid off his 2004 Honda CRV, while currently working 40hrs a week with generous travel -- A life I admire, and one that is certainly not normal, but is achievable. Personally, my school debt is going to stay around a while, but don't worry, I have no subsidized student loans because I don't believe other Americans should pay for my education

However, I was distracted by this ridiculous statement:
Quote:

Originally Posted by snejk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Presuming you don't have rich parents...

Rich parents != spoiled children

 

[marvin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by snejk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Back on topic. I don't see the problem with debt. It's just a way to match the needs in your life with the money (capital) needed, on a more extended time scale. When you're 20 to 30 there is no way to match your income and saved capital with the spending you need to be able to have a decent life (house, car etc). Presuming you don't have rich parents... As long as you don't overstretch...

Sure you can. Go into engineering.

I'm in my mid 20's. I make a comfortable salary, save ~ 15% of my gross salary, donate 5% of my gross salary, and still can afford ruinously expensive hobbies.

 

[snejk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachary80 /img/forum/go_quote.gif However, I was distracted by this ridiculous statement: Quote: Originally Posted by snejk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Presuming you don't have rich parents... Rich parents != spoiled children

Yeah but that was the point. right? Maybe I should've put a smiley or something to point out that I wasn't implying that I thought that was the right way to go.

And of course you CAN go life without mortgages etc (hmm... although I might have said that you can't...), but not if you wan't to cater for your family with a house for example. Maybe I should put my post in the light of the Swedish housing market, and especially in Stockholm. All housing rents (except renting to companies) are regulated, meaning landlords can't raise rents the way they want. That seems like a decent legislation but the problem arises in areas where the demand clearly exceeds the supply. This in combination with extremly strong tenant rights make the regulated apartments very attractive on the black market, fetching prices up to maybe a third of the price of an owned apartment.

So, the only ways for getting good living in Stockholm is one of the following:
1 Stay with your parents
2 Have VERY good contacts and be lucky to get a regulated rent apartment for free
3 Buy a regulated rent contract on the black market (without the chance to get good terms on a loan)
4 Buy an apartment

In my view the only way to go if you want decent living before you're retired is 4 => Mortgages.

 

[Old Pa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by guzziguy /img/forum/go_quote.gif At least it wasn't a total waste. I managed to make you laugh.

That you did.

 

[Jahn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamey /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm owned. I bought a house about a year ago and since it is 30 miles away from my work I also needed reliable transportation. To me, the house is worth every cent I spend every month. It puts a big smile on my face to come home every day. The car I could do without. I can feel the value blowing out the tail pipe as I drive down the highway.

My wife has a term for that (and us) - we're "House-Poor." Yeah it's a nice place, but literally at the end of the month I'm eatin' Skippy sandwiches - couldn't afford the upgrade to fluffernutter. I have a locked amount of "me time" money that seems to be incorporated in the massive bartering and juggling I do between my hobbies - it turns out ok. We don't have a car - don't need one in the city. Student loans are all under control - I paid my way through everything but the last degree, and my wife's off the hook as of last year.

So at the end of the day, the house stuff is the 900lb Gorilla, and I gotta pay that principal to build up equity, otherwise I'm just banking on appreciation from the market when I eventually sell, which is never a sure thing.

Debt is fun.

 

[zachary80]

Quote:

Originally Posted by snejk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah but that was the point. right? Maybe I should've put a smiley or something to point out that I wasn't implying that I thought that was the right way to go.

Sorry for misinterpreting, I just have to deal with those arguments too often and they really annoy me. The great industrialist Andrew Carnegie was one of the wealthiest men in modern history, and he provides a great example of fiscal responsibility, especially with the giving away of all his money to foundations and charities by/at his death. Many of the wealthiest people I know do not spoil their children, and it is a sad misconception like many of the other stereotypes